T Nation

I'm Genuinely Torn Now...Judaism or Christianity


I really don't know what to make of this. Thoughtful insight would be greatly appreciated.

I had the most vivid dream: While sitting in a parking lot, a car full of white haired men who said they were Christians pulled up next to me and said they were going to kill me. I fled and was driving in an older neighborhood with these guys a couple of blocks back. I saw a synagogue, went in, an everyone was very generous giving me things. One of the white haired Christians came in with his grey haired wife (guess it was wife) and we were in the Temple gift shop. To make them flee, I grabbed the lady by the hair and rubbed her face in the Jewish gift shop stuff. She screamed in horror and they fled. I then woke up.

This was one of the most vivid dreams I have ever had.

Any help anyone (and this NOT a troll thread, really).


You are a Jew. Embrace it. Your subconscious mind has already figured it out.

If you accept your Jewishness, according to the symbology of your dream, the rewards will be great (the generous gift-giving of the people of the synogogue symbolizing a newfound sense of community which perhaps you had heretofore felt that you were missing), but the risks are also great, as you would now be at odds with the ancient specter of antisemitism, which your subconscious has chosen to personify as white-haired "Christians".

Your dream seems even to suggest a course of action: it shows you literally "rubbing the face" of the antisemitic old "Christian" in the fact of your newfound faith. Which seems oddly in character. :stuck_out_tongue:

You know what to do.

Pray about it.

If you believe that God (and promise me, Headhunter, that if you do revert to Judaism you will not start replacing the "o" in the word "God" with a hyphen) has spoken to you in the past, then you must believe that He will give you guidance this time.


The Jews in there were exceptionally generous. I was astounded by the warmth and kindness shown to a stranger.

It freaks me out as I can still see the face of the main Christian dude who was pursuing me. No shit, the guy looked like Dr. Mengele.

I want to add...I am not making this up. This really affected me deeply.


Well, then, I am at a loss as to why you feel "genuinely torn".

You are Jewish by birth, and for all appearances proud of your heritage (why else brag about how smart Ashkenazi Jews are). Now you have had a dream depicting you being accepted by your long-forgotten tribe, while being pursued and threatened by demonic representations of Christianity.

Sounds like a pretty clear-cut choice to me.

And Alisa Rosenbaum would likely agree.


Why white hair? Why did they want to kill you?


Are you sure this was a dream? Maybe the Lord summoned Josef Mengele from his grave to do his bidding in the world anew. I say stick to Judaism for the time being, but watch "A Serious Man" by the Coen Brothers first so you know what you may be in for, and also listen to a lot of Jefferson Airplane.


Maybe they were trying to retrieve the Keymaker before Headhunter could reach the Architect.

On second thought, no, these guys were almost definitely Rastafarians, not Christians.


How is this a Political or World Issue?


I know this'll sound even more looney tunes but what if Satan had me dream that, to turn away from Jesus? See why I'm torn between what to think?


I don't know. The leader was an ascetic guy who looked like Dr. Mengele, with a lean face, like a genuine religious fanatic. He has white hair, like the Weise Angel in the movie 'Marathon Man'.

Why they wanted to kill me I can't fathom. I guess the Jews in line at Auschwitz didn't know why the crazy motherfuckers wanted to kill them either.


Because we talk a lot about religion in here too. I posted this in here also because there are some genuinely smart people who post here, whose opinions I respect.


You were getting chased by a group of, old angry Christians. So you went into a Jewish place of worship and then because there were Christians there you assaulted them... sounds wonderful. And your take-away from this is you must be Jewish, and you're not at all concerned that you assaulted two people purely because they were Christian?

I can understand that you might be angry at the other "Christians" who were trying to kill you, but it doesn't justify trying to harm other Christians. Hate breeds hate.

I have never in my life had a dream of murdering or harming another person. Defending my family from harm, be it zombies, monsters, whatever, but never out of angst attacking someone. I think you have some issues friend.


I'll see your looney tunes proposition and raise you one stark raving mad blasphemy: what if Christianity itself was dreamed up by Satan to get the Jews to turn away from their original monotheistic faith? Hmmmm? In that case, perhaps God gave you that dream, to warn you.


I think in all seriousness if you are going to consider and honestly question your current faith/beliefs, working from a dream you had, isn't a good starting point. Second, you speak with those who are of a solid understanding of each faith respectively. Does that they say make sense to you, does it mesh with what you feel? Does it challenge you, and if so, what are those challenges?

As willy nilly as people are about what they believe, it sure is a major part of your life and will impact how you perceive the world. Will you truly and honestly follow the faith you "choose" anyhow, or are you looking to just belong somewhere? Will you be religious about your faith, going through the emotions, or will you truly try to understand it, embrace it, and live it?

There are as many snake oil salemen (if not more) in religion than there are anywhere else. Start with the "good books" and go from there. But I highly doubt God would give you a dream punishing one type of "faith" and not the other. I don't think I've read a single line of any Scripture where he "led" someone to a certain faith by having them perform acts of violence. Satan, whether you believe in him or not, probably wouldn't take the time to screw with one of your dreams... it was a dream, it functions off of your subconscious, and many times what you've thought about during the day, or past few days can creep into your dreams and twist depending on how radical your imagination is.

One should almost certainly be separate from the other.


Quasi-tech, I want you to read the first sentence of the first paragraph of the post you just wrote, and then ask yourself how ALL of the major religions on the planet today got started.

Weren't they all through divine revelation? God essentially coming down and telling people like Abraham, Moses, Zarathustra, Saul of Tarsus and Muhammad, "no no, no. You're doing it wrong. Do it like THIS instead!"

Couldn't those divine revelations have happened in dreams, or perhaps have been made to appear like dreams (or at very least, couldn't these men have been dreaming that they got revelations from God)?

Secondly, I suggest you reread your Bible, particularly the events between the Exodus and the Exile, and then come back an make the claim that God wouldn't punish one type of faith and not another, or that nobody in the scriptures was ever led to faith through an act of violence.


Damn, Varq....
Ever since you've bee back you always seem to be a step ahead of me. Saves me a lot of typing, plus you have a better writing style than me.

Good to have you back.


I don't believe God, in any of his "visions" encouraged violence against a particular group.. though I bet Hitler might make similar claim. I think Son of Sam made similar claims, but it was his dog who spoke to him. You're right, they did have visions/visitations/etc. And then they went out and did something profound/great, however positive or negative we may view it today. They didn't come post it on the forums.

So either this is just a dream, someone has literally been visited by some supernatural being encouraging violence of one and acceptance of another, or this is trolling.

And I never said God didn't lead people to an answer through violence/suffering that happened in Egypt and they again suffered in the desert for losing faith, I said that He didn't tell people to go out and commit acts of violence, especially not as a "hey, this is our first meeting, go smash some face!" He did tell Abraham to kill his son Isaac to test his faith, and he did tell Joshua to over-take a city and make it his own... but he did not inspire someone as a first time to harm another. I'll also note that God stopped Abraham before the act was committed.

Do you see what I'm trying to say to Headhunter, as a whole, or do you wish to continue to debate in detail?


You read from Exodus to 2nd Kings ALREADY?

Shit, that was fast.


If you want to understand what Judaism is, that is simple. Go and take a look at what the Jews do to the Palestinian people. It is quite an eye opener.


I don't read a whole lot more into dreams than them being manifestations of your inner subconscious turmoil. To try to read too much into them can be problematic in my opinion. Obviously the questions you've been having regarding your faith are really causing you some deep inner conflict. It may sound weird but, I think this is a good thing. My father is an Anglican priest and he has told me before that he is constantly struggling with his faith but that this in a way constantly gives him the chance to renew his convictions. Too many people in this world brush off faith and religion so it is refreshing to hear of someone who is really putting in serious contemplation towards these things. I converted from Anglicanism to Roman Catholicism10 years ago and I struggled with some of the same questions that you are having right now. Since converting, I've never been happier and more centered. Varq hit the nail on the head when he suggested praying on it. Just remember to listen for God's answer.
P.S. I'll keep you in my prayers as well, that you find what your soul is looking for, whether it be in Christianity or Judaism