T Nation

Illegal Immigration a Huge Problem

Illegal immigration must be stopped.

"In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

? A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

? The leadership of the Columbia Lil? Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.?s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation."

http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article4400.html
“The percentage of all federal prisoners who are criminal aliens has remained the same over the last 3 years–about 27 percent. The majority of criminal aliens incarcerated at the end of calendar year 2004 were identified as citizens of Mexico.”

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_researchf6ad
“The total K-12 school expenditure for illegal immigrants costs the states nearly $12 billion annually, and when the children born here to illegal aliens are added, the costs more than double to $28.6 billion.”

http://www.vdare.com/walker/dui.htm

“Statistics from Austin support the observations of these men: Of 3,007 drunken driving arrests in 2002, 43 percent involved Hispanic men, even though they comprised only about 11 percent of the city’s driving population. And the story is similar elsewhere: North Carolina drunk driving arrests of Hispanics in 2000 amounted to 12.3 percent of the total 87,781 DUI arrests, while Latinos were 4.7 percent of the population according to the Census.”

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/index.html


Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002.

I know, I know, it’s scary you and me are going to be living with ten million murdering mexicans pretty damn quick (if they don’t kill us). Kinda gives you an idea how the Indians felt in the early 1800’s.

Watch out Reddog, you’ll be labeled a racist, bigoted, retard. Your facts won’t matter, your good sense will be ignored.

Don’t you know that a countries borders are only a suggestion? That’s what I love about our leftist brothers, there’s nothing that isn’t open to interpritation.

Here’s the Deal:

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, “Improper Entry by Alien,” any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

-Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

-Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

-Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.

Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
I know, I know, it’s scary you and me are going to be living with ten million murdering mexicans pretty damn quick (if they don’t kill us). Kinda gives you an idea how the Indians felt in the early 1800’s. [/quote]

What in the HELL do you think Mexicans are?

The ignorance that you display of your own lineage is emabarassing.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Watch out Reddog, you’ll be labeled a racist, bigoted, retard. Your facts won’t matter, your good sense will be ignored.

Don’t you know that a countries borders are only a suggestion? That’s what I love about our leftist brothers, there’s nothing that isn’t open to interpritation.

[/quote]

Don’t know what you’re talking about. The current administration has done a pretty shitty job of securing our borders and preventing illegal immigration.

Flamer, on serious note, I agree with you and I think it is a huge problem. I don’t think we have the resources to fully stamp this problem out like you and other conservatives would like though. You want a solution where the borders are clamped down like a vise and where perps or illegals are delt with severely like criminals possibly even death (armed and warranted to use deadly force border guards) if they commit the crime of crossing the border.

I don’t think for a variety of reasons that will ever happen. You have corruption and powerful Americans (many who are white) who want them here for cheap labor. You have the reality of it being unrealistic with our resources to totally clamp down the borders. You have numerous familial ties of Mexicans who now have family here.

We need to look for ways to help Mexico help itself so it’s people don’t want to leave. We need to accept the reality, and for many whites it will be hard, that Latinos are going to be the majority population in this country over the next twenty years.

Just like the Indians around 1870 did the Buffalo dance hoping that it would swallow up the white man and take them away, Americans have to realize this is in some ways is inevitable and you can’t do a wonder bread dance hoping it’s going to take all the Mexicans away.

You had better deal with the reality that many are here to stay and how are we going to incorporate them into a healthy group in our society.

Just because I am of Mexican American descent, I am not a big advocate of illegals being here, but they are and we have to deal with it. They are a foreign people to me and I would feel just as out of place with them as I would with a a bunch of Sri Lankans, but I realize many of them are here to stay.

A good read for all you folks who don’t believe ILLEGAL immigration is a problem.

Welcome to America! Now, go home. By Dale Franks

The New York Times is hyperventilating now that they’ve learned the US Border Patrol is rounding up illegal immigrants in California. Even worse, the Border Patrol–no doubt because of institutional racism–appears to be concentrating on illegal immigrants of Hispanic origin.

Southern California Latino communities far from the Mexican border have been roiled in recent days by a series of sweeps by United States Border Patrol agents that have led to scores of arrests.

Fanned by rumors and dire reports in Spanish-language news media, fear has spread through neighborhoods in areas more than 100 miles from the border and has prompted many people to stay home from work and avoid ethnic markets. Some parents are keeping their children out of school and skipping church services after hearing reports that Border Patrol agents are staking out schoolyards, residential areas and church parking lots.

Latino community and church leaders say the inland raids are sowing fear and anger among Latinos, who they say appear to be singled out because of the color of their skin.

A spokesman for the Border Patrol said the arrests were part of an operation that began 10 days ago with sweeps in the Southern California cities of Ontario and Corona, during which nearly 160 people suspected of being illegal immigrants were arrested, most of them Mexicans, but also a few from Guatemala and El Salvador. Patrols last week in Escondido, in northern San Diego County, brought in 150 more, he said.

The Rev. Arnoldo Abelardo of La Placita Church in Los Angeles said immigration officers were randomly stopping Latinos on the street in their neighborhoods in suburbs east and south of Los Angeles and demanding their immigration papers.

“This is a very big surprise. They haven’t done this in years,” Father Abelardo said. “They’re going to Laundromats and schools and shops, stopping people when they get off the bus. They’re not doing this in places that are non-Latino.”

He added: “The community is being exploited by fears of immigration raids. It is evil.”

The professional victims from organizations like La Raza act as if there were huge expatriate communities of illegal immigrants from, say, Sweden, who are being ignored by the Border Patrol. There aren’t, of course. The Patrol concentrates on Hispanics because 99.9% of illegal immigrants in California are Hispanic.

Now, whenever this subject comes up in the media, there’s always someone telling you that “immigrants” are a boon to this country, that they pay taxes, etc., etc., etc. But that’s only true when you lump illegal and legal immigration in together. Illegal immigration is a net drain on the economy and on government services.

The problem is not “immigration”. The problem is illegal immigration that is essentially uncontrolled.

Unlike legal immigrants, illegals cannot legally work in the US. Therefore, they often work as handymen, gardeners, bricklayers, or any one of a hundred occupations where they are paid in cash, rather than carried on the rolls as employees. Those that are hired by US companies can only do so because they have purchased fraudulent identification.

If you live outside the Southwest, it might be hard to appreciate the massive weight of illegal immigration we experience here in California. Indeed, if you live outside of California, you’d probably be surprised, too, because California receives the lion’s share of illegal immigration from our sunny neighbors to the south.

And we’re paying for it, too. The state of California spends somewhere around $7.5 billion per year on medical care and education for illegal immigrants. In addition, illegals ship an additional $11 billion out of California, back to their families in Mexico. In fact, such currency repatriation is Mexico’s largest source of foreign income, with the exception of oil sales. That’s probably a pretty good deal for Mexico, but that’s a cool $11 bil that just disappears from California’s economy every year.

There is also another fundamental difference between legal and illegal immigration: legals come here to stay, and become Americans; illegals primarily come here to work. That does not invest illegals with an interest in the country in the same way that it does legal immigrants. Illegals simply have no stake in our society.

In addition, there is an ideological component to illegal immigration that is troubling. There is a concerted effort on the part of activists–including government officials–on both sides of the border who believe that the US “occupation” of California is illegal, and that California belongs to Mexico. And, come to think of it, so do Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico, as well. And while we’re on the subject, the Texas Question is far from settled, too.

Go to almost any pro-illegal immigration protests or rallies, and you will invariably hear some variation on, “This land is ours!” And, every time there’s an activist march, everybody’s carrying big honkin’ Mexican flags. (Note to activists: that’s not a way to get my sympathy. If you think the US sucks, and being in Mexico is such a good deal, then why the f*** aren’t you there? Just asking.)

That irks me. If you want to use that logic, then, frankly, why stop at the Mexican War? As far as I know, the Aztecs, the Mayans, and the Incas didn’t invite Francisco Pizarro and Hernando Cortez over here. And in that case, the land doesn’t belong to Mexico at all. As near as I figure it, my part of California would revert to the Pala Band of Mission Indians. At least, I think it would be them. I mean, that’s the casino that’s closest to my house.

Either way, Mexico gets squat.

Of course, there’s also the security issue to consider. When 750,000 illegals per year are crossing the border, that doesn’t fill me with confidence that we’re magically filtering out the al-Qaida guys who might be trying to do the same thing. Knowing who is coming into and going out of the country might be, you know, important. But if we can’t stop 3/4s of a million poor, impoverished illegals from coming into the country every year, I have zero confidence that we are keeping al-Qaida operatives out. Which is, I should point out again, something we might want to do.

What is also irksome is having US politicians sit down with Mexican government officials like Vicente Fox, listen judiciously, then come out parroting the Mexican Government’s line on Immigration. “Oh, you want us to accept Mexican ID cards as legal ID in the US? Why, Sure, Vinnie! No Problem!” “Oh, you think we should have a guest worker or amnesty program for illegals? Why, we’ll get right on that!”

Now, Vicente Fox is the president of Mexico. His job is to look after the interests of his nation and its citizens. It is in the best interest of Mexico to do a couple of things.

First, it helps keep the lid on the slow simmer of political unrest that Mexico constantly faces when the hardest working and most adventurous Mexicans can be sent north, out of the country. That way, they won’t feel the need to stick around and cause trouble at home.

Second, the flow of US dollars into the perennially crippled Mexican economy helps by giving Mexico a steady source of hard currency. It also keeps a good portion of the peasantry from starving, which, again, reduces any of that uncomfortable pressure for political change.

Taken together, this means that the Mexican government can postpone indefinitely any reform to the mercantilist economic system that’s been in place there for the last 3 centuries. That allows the 0.1% of Mexicans who own 99% of Mexico’s assets to remain comfortably ensconced in power, idly wondering, occasionally, why the remaining 99.9% of Mexicans don’t just eat cake.

But, our elected officials shouldn’t be concerned with any of that. Their job is to protect American interests, although they seem relatively uninterested about it.

Finally, illegal immigrants are not getting a very fair shake out of this either. They are worked long and hard, without any chance of building a pension, or a 401(k). They do back-breaking work until they are worn out at 40, at which point they are left with the choice of returning to Mexico–where, literally no opportunity at all awaits them–or living from day to day as a day laborer. If they get sick, they have no health insurance, so it’s the Emergency Room or nothing. They are afraid to call in the police when they become victims of crime, for fear of being deported, which, of course, makes them far more likely to become victims of crime.

And the fact that they prefer this to remaining in Mexico should tell us volumes about the crushing poverty and hopelessness endemic to that failed country.

But fixing Mexico’s failures is not our responsibility. Our responsibility is to secure the borders, as well as the lives and livelihood of American citizens. And it’s not helpful for the nation’s newspaper of record–and, for better or worse, that’s what the New York Times is–gets as restless as a…a…caged hamster when the Border Patrol finally begins to make a little extra effort to enforce our immigration laws.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Elkhntr1 wrote:
I know, I know, it’s scary you and me are going to be living with ten million murdering mexicans pretty damn quick (if they don’t kill us). Kinda gives you an idea how the Indians felt in the early 1800’s.

What in the HELL do you think Mexicans are?

The ignorance that you display of your own lineage is emabarassing. [/quote]

Please enlighten me and tell me how I am ingnorant of my lineage. :slight_smile:

Building a wall at the border won’t work.

We need a realistic guest worker program.

We also need to crack down on the employers that hire illegal aliens.

Hiring illegal aliens to pick strawberries may be cheap but it looks like a false savings to our economy.

Maybe the white man should not do the “wonder bread dance”, but they could take a job in the field picking their own food. But I cannot think of one white person who I know would work in the field if they don’t own the land. Not even homeless people want the job, now go figure why these people are here?

So unless your prepared to pay huge amounts of money for your fruits and vegetables, shut your hole? I come from illegal aliens whom are now citizens of this country, as do many of my friends and family. I will let you in on a little secret,nobody of the second generation works in the field, we have degrees and such which allow us to take good jobs. In turn you need more workers to pick your food (our food).

Secondly as T-Nationers, why would you want to kick out all these illegals and then not be able to afford veggies and fruit? Haven’t you been reading all the nutrition articles on this site, we need fruit and vegetables.

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Flamer, on serious note, I agree with you and I think it is a huge problem. I don’t think we have the resources to fully stamp this problem out like you and other conservatives would like though. You want a solution where the borders are clamped down like a vise and where perps or illegals are delt with severely like criminals possibly even death (armed and warranted to use deadly force border guards) if they commit the crime of crossing the border.[/quote]

I truly believe that an aggresive presence at the border would save lives of both nationalities.

[quote]
I don’t think for a variety of reasons that will ever happen. You have corruption and powerful Americans (many who are white) who want them here for cheap labor.[/quote]

I think we would both agree that corruption doesn’t favor any particular race, religion, or ethnicity.

[quote]
You have the reality of it being unrealistic with our resources to totally clamp down the borders. You have numerous familial ties of Mexicans who now have family here.[/quote]

Border security is one of the Bush administrations failings. To truly provide homeland security, we need secure borders.

[quote]
We need to look for ways to help Mexico help itself so it’s people don’t want to leave. We need to accept the reality, and for many whites it will be hard, that Latinos are going to be the majority population in this country over the next twenty years.
Just like the Indians around 1870 did the Buffalo dance hoping that it would swallow up the white man and take them away, Americans have to realize this is in some ways is inevitable and you can’t do a wonder bread dance hoping it’s going to take all the Mexicans away.[/quote]

No problem for me. I have close friends that I worked at the factory with for many years that were latino. One of them made the crossing himself. He’s the one who told me first hand how dangerous it is. I couldn’t give a shit who the mojority population in the US is. Latino, Arab, Asian, Caucasion, doesn’t matter to me.

It’s funny, the other day I was telling my brother (an extreme homophobe) about all the places I was marketing my home inspection company at and some of the realtors offices I hit were in an area somewhat known for homosexuals. He asks me “what if a couple of homos want you to do a home inspection”? My response was “homo money spends just as good as your money does”.

The only color that matters is green baby! $=:)

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

We need a realistic guest worker program.

[/quote]

I think this is key. It needs to be more tempting than crossing the border as well. This could be a tax break on a certain percentage of their income with the intent of it being sent to families or any other series of options that allow the US to monitor non-citizens but allows for foreigners to have a chance.

This won’t deter all of the illegal immigration, but it may limit it.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

My response was “homo money spends just as good as your money does”.

[/quote]

Now we know why you call yourself bigflamer.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Building a wall at the border won’t work.

We need a realistic guest worker program.

We also need to crack down on the employers that hire illegal aliens.

Hiring illegal aliens to pick strawberries may be cheap but it looks like a false savings to our economy.
[/quote]

I agree.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Building a wall at the border won’t work.

We need a realistic guest worker program.

We also need to crack down on the employers that hire illegal aliens.

Hiring illegal aliens to pick strawberries may be cheap but it looks like a false savings to our economy.
[/quote]

I agree but we do have to secure our borders. The scariest picture is Nuevo Laredo I think we need Military support for that area. Phoenix has its problems with immigration but no major problems. Some of the southern communities in Az have trespassing, theft and destruction of property problems but overall nothing terrible

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Building a wall at the border won’t work.

We need a realistic guest worker program.

We also need to crack down on the employers that hire illegal aliens.

Hiring illegal aliens to pick strawberries may be cheap but it looks like a false savings to our economy.
[/quote]

Holy crap, I completly agree with you =O

[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Building a wall at the border won’t work.

We need a realistic guest worker program.

We also need to crack down on the employers that hire illegal aliens.

Hiring illegal aliens to pick strawberries may be cheap but it looks like a false savings to our economy.

Holy crap, I completly agree with you =O[/quote]

I was amazed too. But, in fact, I don’t think anyone but the illegal immigrants disagree that we need to do something about them.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: until we start doing something really serious to this people – which should include shipping them out for a long time to a prison as far away from the Southern border as possible – think North Dakota – they’ll keep coming in. It has to stop, dammit.

How about an agreement with Russia to ship them off to Siberia as slave labor? It worked for Stalin as a deterrent, I’m sure it will for us.

And, by the way, although I speak fluent Spanish, I’m also all for doing what they do in Europe – making English fluency a requirement for obtaining any legal document, from a visa / work permit to a driver’s license. I have no problem with people speaking their native language between themselves, and teaching Spanish at schools – but anyone coming to this country must learn English if they want to live here. Unless you’re blind, if you’re an adult and can’t read, understand and recite the Declaration of Independence in its original form, you shouldn’t be here, period. It would be like playing football without even knowing the objective of the game.

I just recently moved to El Paso Texas, which is a border town (right across from the tropical city of Juarez, MX), and can fully attest that illegal immigrants are a huge problem in this neck of the woods. The border patrol in this area stepped up security recently only to have the immigrants migrate west a bit into New Mexico where numerous holes in the fences allow for easy migration into this country.

An article in the newspaper two weeks ago also stated that a major portion of school funding is being used to educate kids who don’t speak English. Hmmmmm…how is it that a child supposedly raised in this country cannot speak the language?? How about this, if you can’t speak the language we’ll get you a one way ticket to someplace where they do and they can worry about your education.

I do agree that we must pass stricter legislation against hiring illegals to perform cheap work, but I do not think that WE are the answer to Mexico’s economic problems.

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Flamer, on serious note, I agree with you and I think it is a huge problem. I don’t think we have the resources to fully stamp this problem out like you and other conservatives would like though. You want a solution where the borders are clamped down like a vise and where perps or illegals are delt with severely like criminals possibly even death (armed and warranted to use deadly force border guards) if they commit the crime of crossing the border.

I don’t think for a variety of reasons that will ever happen. You have corruption and powerful Americans (many who are white) who want them here for cheap labor. You have the reality of it being unrealistic with our resources to totally clamp down the borders. You have numerous familial ties of Mexicans who now have family here.

We need to look for ways to help Mexico help itself so it’s people don’t want to leave. We need to accept the reality, and for many whites it will be hard, that Latinos are going to be the majority population in this country over the next twenty years.

Just like the Indians around 1870 did the Buffalo dance hoping that it would swallow up the white man and take them away, Americans have to realize this is in some ways is inevitable and you can’t do a wonder bread dance hoping it’s going to take all the Mexicans away.

You had better deal with the reality that many are here to stay and how are we going to incorporate them into a healthy group in our society.

Just because I am of Mexican American descent, I am not a big advocate of illegals being here, but they are and we have to deal with it. They are a foreign people to me and I would feel just as out of place with them as I would with a a bunch of Sri Lankans, but I realize many of them are here to stay. [/quote]

W cant do anything about it so why try? A true T-Man attitude…

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Building a wall at the border won’t work.

We need a realistic guest worker program.

We also need to crack down on the employers that hire illegal aliens.

Hiring illegal aliens to pick strawberries may be cheap but it looks like a false savings to our economy.
[/quote]

Absolutely. Its supply & demand. If the fines/penalties businesses had to pay for hiring illegals made it no longer profitable, much of the problem would go away. I would think $100,000 per illegal would be a good start. I’m certain the price of some goods (particularly agricultural goods) would go up, but the free maket would soon stabilize them, and in the long run, we’d be much better off.