T Nation

I'll Follow Your Workout. Help Please.


#1

Ok I have been working-out for a while now but I just cannot build a good workout plan I have read various forums but I canâ??t put one together. I canâ??t get the mix of power lifting, bodybuilding dayâ??s parts and lifts to sit properly. Diet is too hard to I can follow it to a tee I donâ??t need cheat days but i donâ??t know what I should be eating.

Despite all the confusion I have made some good gains through sheer intensity alone. So can you guys post me a workout plan and diet? I will choose the one that sounds the best and will follow it for 12 months to absolute perfection.

If you need further information tell me I would greatly appreciate it.
P.s I donâ??t have to much money for supplements maybe a protein powder.


#2

ohhhhhhh poor beach bunny, you are going to get flamed for this.

PM one of the mods quick and see if they can delete this thread before it gets too out of control.


#3

try max ot. google that shit


#4

according to your last thread you’ve gone past your calve’s genetic potential
just stick to a 5x week bench and curl workout bruh

but seriously with the mountain of workout plans on this site alone you couldn’t pick a good one?

the big question: what are your goals?


#5

Do starting strength and follow that diet. You lazy sack of shit


#6

It happens

[quote]gregron wrote:
ohhhhhhh poor beach bunny, you are going to get flamed for this.

PM one of the mods quick and see if they can delete this thread before it gets too out of control.[/quote]


#7
  1. Goals?
  2. How many times a week and how much time you can devote?

#8

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

  1. Goals?
  2. How many times a week and how much time you can devote?[/quote]

I would echo what Joab is asking here. This is important info.

I don’t know why you are so hopelessly confused, this is not exactly difficult stuff.

If I told you that the basic exercises for each muscle group were as follows…
chest: flat and incline barbell bench, flies
back: pullups, barbell and tbar rows
shoulders: seated barbell presses, db side and raises
biceps: barbell and dumbbell curls
triceps: pushdowns, lying and overhead extensions
thighs: squats, leg curls, leg press, stiff-leg deadlifts
calves: standing and seated raises
abs: situps and leg raises

… and then told you to organize them in a way so that you’re lifting 5-6 days each week, doing each of those lifts at least once a week (twice a week probably being better)…

How would you do it? And, how many sets and reps would you do?


#9

[quote]mr popular wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

  1. Goals?
  2. How many times a week and how much time you can devote?[/quote]

I would echo what Joab is asking here. This is important info.

I don’t know why you are so hopelessly confused, this is not exactly difficult stuff.

If I told you that the basic exercises for each muscle group were as follows…
chest: flat and incline barbell bench, flies
back: pullups, barbell and tbar rows
shoulders: seated barbell presses, db side and raises
biceps: barbell and dumbbell curls
triceps: pushdowns, lying and overhead extensions
thighs: squats, leg curls, leg press, stiff-leg deadlifts
calves: standing and seated raises
abs: situps and leg raises

… and then told you to organize them in a way so that you’re lifting 5-6 days each week, doing each of those lifts at least once a week (twice a week probably being better)…

How would you do it? And, how many sets and reps would you do?[/quote]

I would do a 6 to 8 rep range but im not sure about sets? I don’t know what’s better 3 sets or 5?

Im confused about doing chest on say Monday and then triceps on Tuesday how do I know whether I am resting a muscle group? I do not get sore every time.

My goal is to add as much mass as I can but really im aiming for another 10-20lbs preferable on the upper body only and get my arms to 16 inches whilst adding some back mass.


#10

[quote]Bunny Bench wrote:

I would do a 6 to 8 rep range but im not sure about sets? I don’t know what’s better 3 sets or 5?

Im confused about doing chest on say Monday and then triceps on Tuesday how do I know whether I am resting a muscle group? I do not get sore every time.

My goal is to add as much mass as I can but really im aiming for another 10-20lbs preferable on the upper body only and get my arms to 16 inches whilst adding some back mass.[/quote]

You would do a 6-8 rep range for everything? Like side raises and pushdowns? Come on man have you even started lifting weights yet, how can you not know that’s a bad idea?

Sets are not complicated, you simply do as many as you have to before you’re warmed up to do your heaviest weight. For something like a back squat, it will probably take a good 4 or 5 progressively heavier sets for your body to be prepared to lift the heavy weight. For something like side raises… you probably only need a couple warmup sets before you can get right into it.

(to be clear, when I say “get into it”, I mean take the heaviest weight you can handle and rep it out to failure in a 6-12 repetition range. From there, some guys like to go up or drop down in weight and do another set or two to failure, but this is all personal preference. I usually like to do a heavy set, and then drop down and do a lighter one for most things).

You don’t understand when you are resting a muscle group…?

It’s resting when you aren’t training it. I mean obviously there is some carryover between certain things, but in general this is not a huge issue as long as you aren’t working muscles directly two days in a row or something like that. If you are comfortable working your triceps the day after chest, that is fine (I do this). If something is sore or you’re getting a lot of overlap in a muscle like your lower back or something, then you wouldn’t want to do it.

If you aren’t getting a least a little bit sore the day or two after every training session, you are not training hard enough PERIOD. Maybe once you actually put some real intensity into your training, this will all come naturally to you the way it did for all of us?


#11

[quote]mr popular wrote:

[quote]Bunny Bench wrote:

I would do a 6 to 8 rep range but im not sure about sets? I don’t know what’s better 3 sets or 5?

Im confused about doing chest on say Monday and then triceps on Tuesday how do I know whether I am resting a muscle group? I do not get sore every time.

My goal is to add as much mass as I can but really im aiming for another 10-20lbs preferable on the upper body only and get my arms to 16 inches whilst adding some back mass.[/quote]

You would do a 6-8 rep range for everything? Like side raises and pushdowns? Come on man have you even started lifting weights yet, how can you not know that’s a bad idea?

Sets are not complicated, you simply do as many as you have to before you’re warmed up to do your heaviest weight. For something like a back squat, it will probably take a good 4 or 5 progressively heavier sets for your body to be prepared to lift the heavy weight. For something like side raises… you probably only need a couple warmup sets before you can get right into it.

(to be clear, when I say “get into it”, I mean take the heaviest weight you can handle and rep it out to failure in a 6-12 repetition range. From there, some guys like to go up or drop down in weight and do another set or two to failure, but this is all personal preference. I usually like to do a heavy set, and then drop down and do a lighter one for most things).

You don’t understand when you are resting a muscle group…?

It’s resting when you aren’t training it. I mean obviously there is some carryover between certain things, but in general this is not a huge issue as long as you aren’t working muscles directly two days in a row or something like that. If you are comfortable working your triceps the day after chest, that is fine (I do this). If something is sore or you’re getting a lot of overlap in a muscle like your lower back or something, then you wouldn’t want to do it.

If you aren’t getting a least a little bit sore the day or two after every training session, you are not training hard enough PERIOD. Maybe once you actually put some real intensity into your training, this will all come naturally to you the way it did for all of us?[/quote]

Ok thanks ill do that. So do i need to change the weight? example:

set 1 50lbs x 10
set 2 55lbs x 8
set 3 60lbs x 5

or can i just use the same weight over the sets DCT what works better for you?

Do you think you could give me an example for bb bench press? example:

Set 1 warm up (100lbs) x 10
set 2 180lbs x 10
set 3 185lbs x 8
set 4 190lbs x 3

or

set 1 185 lbs x 10
set 2 185 lbs x 8
set 3 185 lbs x 5
set 4 185 lbs x 3


#12

You always want to start (at least with the first couple exercises for each muscle group) with a light weight for 12-20 reps to warm up for your first set. If anything is tight, or there are any clicks or pops or symptoms of injury, you want to find out while you’re only benching 135 rather than starting with the heavy weight. Also, muscles perform better when they are warm and well-circulated. This is why you do progressively heavier sets.

So for the bench, if you want to work up to 185lbs as your heavy weight (heavy relative to the rep range), you would probably start with the bar and do 20 reps or so. Then do 135 for 10-12 reps (not to failure, just enough to feel it in the chest and get a slight pump). Third set, 165 for 8 reps (same). Then go up to 185 for your fourth set and rep it out until you can’t do anymore (somewhere in a 6-10 rep range)*.

From there, some guys are done with flat bench and will move on… some guys like to add more weight and do a heavy set, or other guys like to drop a little weight so they can go to failure again in that rep range for another set or two, it’s really all just personal preference (and there are no rules for exactly what you should be doing, in spite of what internet articles will tell you; All that matters is that you worked really really hard and gave your muscles a reason to grow).

*As far as progression goes, there are no strict rules for this either, except that you must get progressively stronger or you won’t get any bigger. That doesn’t mean you should be powerlifting, it just means that if you can bench 185 for 8 reps now, your chest will be significantly bigger when you can bench 245 for 8 reps.

A lot of guys just work with a heavy weight until they can get it for a pre-set number of times… like 8, or 10 reps… and when they can get that, they add weight. Other guys like to add a certain amount of weight at the beginning of each month. All that matters is that you DO IT somehow.


#13

Those are good posts mr.popular


#14

[quote]mr popular wrote:
You always want to start (at least with the first couple exercises for each muscle group) with a light weight for 12-20 reps to warm up for your first set. If anything is tight, or there are any clicks or pops or symptoms of injury, you want to find out while you’re only benching 135 rather than starting with the heavy weight. Also, muscles perform better when they are warm and well-circulated. This is why you do progressively heavier sets.

So for the bench, if you want to work up to 185lbs as your heavy weight (heavy relative to the rep range), you would probably start with the bar and do 20 reps or so. Then do 135 for 10-12 reps (not to failure, just enough to feel it in the chest and get a slight pump). Third set, 165 for 8 reps (same). Then go up to 185 for your fourth set and rep it out until you can’t do anymore (somewhere in a 6-10 rep range)*.

From there, some guys are done with flat bench and will move on… some guys like to add more weight and do a heavy set, or other guys like to drop a little weight so they can go to failure again in that rep range for another set or two, it’s really all just personal preference (and there are no rules for exactly what you should be doing, in spite of what internet articles will tell you; All that matters is that you worked really really hard and gave your muscles a reason to grow).

*As far as progression goes, there are no strict rules for this either, except that you must get progressively stronger or you won’t get any bigger. That doesn’t mean you should be powerlifting, it just means that if you can bench 185 for 8 reps now, your chest will be significantly bigger when you can bench 245 for 8 reps.

A lot of guys just work with a heavy weight until they can get it for a pre-set number of times… like 8, or 10 reps… and when they can get that, they add weight. Other guys like to add a certain amount of weight at the beginning of each month. All that matters is that you DO IT somehow.[/quote]

Thank you this is a big help i really appreciate the information I think i have discovered one or two mistakes i am making.

Once again thanks a bunch.

O yep one more thing I don’t have a problem with eating more calories to grow but if you are training like an animal and progressively lifting heavier weights can you grow more muscle without excess calories?

examples:

If you are benching 200lbs but 6 months later you are benching 240 lbs do you grow more muscle even without excess calories? how is it possible to get stronger without more calories?

or is it impossible to grow muscle without eating more?


#15

[quote]Bunny Bench wrote:

[quote]mr popular wrote:
You always want to start (at least with the first couple exercises for each muscle group) with a light weight for 12-20 reps to warm up for your first set. If anything is tight, or there are any clicks or pops or symptoms of injury, you want to find out while you’re only benching 135 rather than starting with the heavy weight. Also, muscles perform better when they are warm and well-circulated. This is why you do progressively heavier sets.

So for the bench, if you want to work up to 185lbs as your heavy weight (heavy relative to the rep range), you would probably start with the bar and do 20 reps or so. Then do 135 for 10-12 reps (not to failure, just enough to feel it in the chest and get a slight pump). Third set, 165 for 8 reps (same). Then go up to 185 for your fourth set and rep it out until you can’t do anymore (somewhere in a 6-10 rep range)*.

From there, some guys are done with flat bench and will move on… some guys like to add more weight and do a heavy set, or other guys like to drop a little weight so they can go to failure again in that rep range for another set or two, it’s really all just personal preference (and there are no rules for exactly what you should be doing, in spite of what internet articles will tell you; All that matters is that you worked really really hard and gave your muscles a reason to grow).

*As far as progression goes, there are no strict rules for this either, except that you must get progressively stronger or you won’t get any bigger. That doesn’t mean you should be powerlifting, it just means that if you can bench 185 for 8 reps now, your chest will be significantly bigger when you can bench 245 for 8 reps.

A lot of guys just work with a heavy weight until they can get it for a pre-set number of times… like 8, or 10 reps… and when they can get that, they add weight. Other guys like to add a certain amount of weight at the beginning of each month. All that matters is that you DO IT somehow.[/quote]

Thank you this is a big help i really appreciate the information I think i have discovered one or two mistakes i am making.

Once again thanks a bunch.

O yep one more thing I don’t have a problem with eating more calories to grow but if you are training like an animal and progressively lifting heavier weights can you grow more muscle without excess calories?

examples:

If you are benching 200lbs but 6 months later you are benching 240 lbs do you grow more muscle even without excess calories? how is it possible to get stronger without more calories?

or is it impossible to grow muscle without eating more?[/quote]

Muscle tissue isn’t made out of thin air. If you gain muscle mass, you have also gained bodyweight - how do you think that happens? You don’t think that a guy with a 40 inch chest and his twin that built a 50 inch chest really weigh the same, do you?

Do you think Arnold Schwarzenegger weighed 150lbs?

Even if one were to not lift weights at all, do you think you can get fatter without eating an excess of calories? Of course not, and that’s just fat tissue which we all know weighs less than muscle tissue.

Of course you need to eat an excess of calories if you want to build an excess of muscle. Besides needing to get the energy and building material from somewhere, your body also needs to be in an environment where it feels comfortable building new muscle tissue (a physiologically expensive process that it will not do if it thinks you might be starving sometime in the near future).

If you want to gain muscle, you should be eating 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight daily (the building blocks of muscle), a moderate amount of fat (for joints, hormones, and energy), and enough carbs to gain several pounds of bodyweight each month (usually somewhere around 2xbodyweight in grams of carbs, depending on how much fat you’re getting in your diet)

Don’t try to figure out some exact formula here, you are going to need to tweak it through trial and error anyway… just get a decent bodybuilding diet going, and if you haven’t gained at least 1lb after two weeks of it, you need to eat more.

You also have to do this every single day, without fail (as well as training at least 5 days a week), for several months on end to see the results you’re after. For every day that you fail to reach your dietary quotas during the week, go ahead and cut the results you expect to see in half. Consistency is really that important in bodybuilding.


#16

[quote]mr popular wrote:

[quote]Bunny Bench wrote:

[quote]mr popular wrote:
You always want to start (at least with the first couple exercises for each muscle group) with a light weight for 12-20 reps to warm up for your first set. If anything is tight, or there are any clicks or pops or symptoms of injury, you want to find out while you’re only benching 135 rather than starting with the heavy weight. Also, muscles perform better when they are warm and well-circulated. This is why you do progressively heavier sets.

So for the bench, if you want to work up to 185lbs as your heavy weight (heavy relative to the rep range), you would probably start with the bar and do 20 reps or so. Then do 135 for 10-12 reps (not to failure, just enough to feel it in the chest and get a slight pump). Third set, 165 for 8 reps (same). Then go up to 185 for your fourth set and rep it out until you can’t do anymore (somewhere in a 6-10 rep range)*.

From there, some guys are done with flat bench and will move on… some guys like to add more weight and do a heavy set, or other guys like to drop a little weight so they can go to failure again in that rep range for another set or two, it’s really all just personal preference (and there are no rules for exactly what you should be doing, in spite of what internet articles will tell you; All that matters is that you worked really really hard and gave your muscles a reason to grow).

*As far as progression goes, there are no strict rules for this either, except that you must get progressively stronger or you won’t get any bigger. That doesn’t mean you should be powerlifting, it just means that if you can bench 185 for 8 reps now, your chest will be significantly bigger when you can bench 245 for 8 reps.

A lot of guys just work with a heavy weight until they can get it for a pre-set number of times… like 8, or 10 reps… and when they can get that, they add weight. Other guys like to add a certain amount of weight at the beginning of each month. All that matters is that you DO IT somehow.[/quote]

Thank you this is a big help i really appreciate the information I think i have discovered one or two mistakes i am making.

Once again thanks a bunch.

O yep one more thing I don’t have a problem with eating more calories to grow but if you are training like an animal and progressively lifting heavier weights can you grow more muscle without excess calories?

examples:

If you are benching 200lbs but 6 months later you are benching 240 lbs do you grow more muscle even without excess calories? how is it possible to get stronger without more calories?

or is it impossible to grow muscle without eating more?[/quote]

Muscle tissue isn’t made out of thin air. If you gain muscle mass, you have also gained bodyweight - how do you think that happens? You don’t think that a guy with a 40 inch chest and his twin that built a 50 inch chest really weigh the same, do you?

Do you think Arnold Schwarzenegger weighed 150lbs?

Even if one were to not lift weights at all, do you think you can get fatter without eating an excess of calories? Of course not, and that’s just fat tissue which we all know weighs less than muscle tissue.

Of course you need to eat an excess of calories if you want to build an excess of muscle. Besides needing to get the energy and building material from somewhere, your body also needs to be in an environment where it feels comfortable building new muscle tissue (a physiologically expensive process that it will not do if it thinks you might be starving sometime in the near future).

If you want to gain muscle, you should be eating 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight daily (the building blocks of muscle), a moderate amount of fat (for joints, hormones, and energy), and enough carbs to gain several pounds of bodyweight each month (usually somewhere around 2xbodyweight in grams of carbs, depending on how much fat you’re getting in your diet)

Don’t try to figure out some exact formula here, you are going to need to tweak it through trial and error anyway… just get a decent bodybuilding diet going, and if you haven’t gained at least 1lb after two weeks of it, you need to eat more.

You also have to do this every single day, without fail (as well as training at least 5 days a week), for several months on end to see the results you’re after. For every day that you fail to reach your dietary quotas during the week, go ahead and cut the results you expect to see in half. Consistency is really that important in bodybuilding.[/quote]

good point.

what would you say is a good diet an extra 300 calories a day?


#17

[quote]Bunny Bench wrote:

good point.

what would you say is a good diet an extra 300 calories a day?[/quote]

You aren’t going to be able to accurately figure out how many calories you’re burning each and every day aside from a general “about 3000”, “about 4000” guideline, so aiming for “300 extra” is really not practical.

Just start SOMEWHERE. If you want a suggestion off the top of my head, get in your protein, and then enough carbs and fats to be at 3500 calories using fitday.com. Eat the same amount every day for 2 weeks, and then weigh yourself… if you haven’t gained at least 2 solid pounds, then add more carbs or fats. If you have gained weight, stick with that diet until the bodyweight slows down again, then add more.

It bears repeating that this is only going to work if you’re 100% consistent, so don’t make the diet really complicated, expensive, or unpleasant to eat.

1lb of any kind of meat, 5 eggs, and two protein shakes should get you on the right track with protein (and some fat) for example. If you like spaghetti, set aside 1lb each day to eat, and then some milk and fruit to have with meals. If you like macaroni and cheese, go with that. Sandwich guy, go ahead and eat 3 or 4 sandwiches in a day to get your carbs in.

My point is, don’t try to get it all from oatmeal and brown rice. Avoid sugar, but eat what you enjoy if you want to stick with it.

I personally love fruit and get a large portion of my carbs from bananas, apples, pears, and assorted juices.


#18

[quote]mr popular wrote:

[quote]Bunny Bench wrote:

good point.

what would you say is a good diet an extra 300 calories a day?[/quote]

You aren’t going to be able to accurately figure out how many calories you’re burning each and every day aside from a general “about 3000”, “about 4000” guideline, so aiming for “300 extra” is really not practical.

Just start SOMEWHERE. If you want a suggestion off the top of my head, get in your protein, and then enough carbs and fats to be at 3500 calories using fitday.com. Eat the same amount every day for 2 weeks, and then weigh yourself… if you haven’t gained at least 2 solid pounds, then add more carbs or fats. If you have gained weight, stick with that diet until the bodyweight slows down again, then add more.

It bears repeating that this is only going to work if you’re 100% consistent, so don’t make the diet really complicated, expensive, or unpleasant to eat.

1lb of any kind of meat, 5 eggs, and two protein shakes should get you on the right track with protein (and some fat) for example. If you like spaghetti, set aside 1lb each day to eat, and then some milk and fruit to have with meals. If you like macaroni and cheese, go with that. Sandwich guy, go ahead and eat 3 or 4 sandwiches in a day to get your carbs in.

My point is, don’t try to get it all from oatmeal and brown rice. Avoid sugar, but eat what you enjoy if you want to stick with it.

I personally love fruit and get a large portion of my carbs from bananas, apples, pears, and assorted juices.[/quote]

I love fruit to and have been using Fit Day for the last couple of weeks. I only said 300 because I have a tendency to stress and start counting calories and eating way to few calories falling off the wagon and binging. The binging does not really effect the cutting stage but it can’t be good for me. How many grams of protein do you recommend? (im 170lbs) I hear people saying up to 300g and others saying just 70g would 1g per lb be a safe thing?

so im getting the impression that when trying to gain muscle you don’t have to be that strict with diet (spaghetti ect.)

thanks ill try and be less restrictive with the foods and try and put some more meat on me.

BTW oatmeal sounds great.


#19

[quote]Bunny Bench wrote:

[quote]mr popular wrote:

[quote]Bunny Bench wrote:

good point.

what would you say is a good diet an extra 300 calories a day?[/quote]

You aren’t going to be able to accurately figure out how many calories you’re burning each and every day aside from a general “about 3000”, “about 4000” guideline, so aiming for “300 extra” is really not practical.

Just start SOMEWHERE. If you want a suggestion off the top of my head, get in your protein, and then enough carbs and fats to be at 3500 calories using fitday.com. Eat the same amount every day for 2 weeks, and then weigh yourself… if you haven’t gained at least 2 solid pounds, then add more carbs or fats. If you have gained weight, stick with that diet until the bodyweight slows down again, then add more.

It bears repeating that this is only going to work if you’re 100% consistent, so don’t make the diet really complicated, expensive, or unpleasant to eat.

1lb of any kind of meat, 5 eggs, and two protein shakes should get you on the right track with protein (and some fat) for example. If you like spaghetti, set aside 1lb each day to eat, and then some milk and fruit to have with meals. If you like macaroni and cheese, go with that. Sandwich guy, go ahead and eat 3 or 4 sandwiches in a day to get your carbs in.

My point is, don’t try to get it all from oatmeal and brown rice. Avoid sugar, but eat what you enjoy if you want to stick with it.

I personally love fruit and get a large portion of my carbs from bananas, apples, pears, and assorted juices.[/quote]

I love fruit to and have been using Fit Day for the last couple of weeks. I only said 300 because I have a tendency to stress and start counting calories and eating way to few calories falling off the wagon and binging. The binging does not really effect the cutting stage but it can’t be good for me. How many grams of protein do you recommend? (im 170lbs) I hear people saying up to 300g and others saying just 70g would 1g per lb be a safe thing?

so im getting the impression that when trying to gain muscle you don’t have to be that strict with diet (spaghetti ect.)

thanks ill try and be less restrictive with the foods and try and put some more meat on me.

BTW oatmeal sounds great.
[/quote]

If you love oatmeal by all means make it a regular source of carbohydrates in your diet. You definitely do not have to be as strict in your diet when building muscle, although obviously you don’t want to go eat a cake every day or consume a ton of processed sugar.

At an absolute minimum, I’d say you should be eating 1.25 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. If you weigh 170lbs, that would be about 210 grams of protein. After a few months when you reach 180lbs, you are going to want to bump that up to about 225, and so on… remember I said this should be your MINIMUM. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that you should go under that number unless you are very sick or something.

Also, I can’t stress enough how important it is to be consistent. The same goes for eating enough calories every day. If your body isn’t fed an excess of calories EVERY single day then it is going to cling to homeostasis as hard as it can, thinking that it isn’t in an environment where growing new tissue is a safe investment of energy.

My last piece of advice is don’t worry about trying to do everything perfectly. Just keep it simple. Meet your dietary quotas every day, get yourself to the gym and train really really hard on the basics 5 or 6 days a week, and know that after a few months you will see real changes.


#20

Perfect I can’t wait to start.

thanks for the info.