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IGF-1 LR3 and GHRP-6 Run


#1

I have decided to do a peptide run - I will be on AAS the entire time, i generally do a 6 week blast (1.5-2g) followed by a 3 week cruise (200mg).

I have read up some, but feel free to add/criticize my plans.

I was thinking of something along the lines of:

IGF-1 LR3: 2x20mcg shot EOD over 50 days.
PegMGF : 140mcg shot 2x/wk on different days to the IGF.
GHRP-6 : 500-700mcg ED over approx. 10 weeks.. depending on effectiveness.

I am buying at least 40mg of GHRP and 3mg of IGF - plenty.

I may not add MGF.. i am not sold on it - although for a 50day run with IGF it may be warranted, even with EOD injects (due to the LR3). Opinions?
It is cheap enough however, so may add it at 280mcg (double the IGF weekly dose) split over two injections on non-IGF days.

The questions i had are these -

Is there any issue to running these two peptides together? From what i can see it would be better than either alone.
I know that Insulin is a direct antagonist to GH - and with GHRP stimulating the secretion of GH, would the use of IGF be counter productive i wonder?

Are the doses OK? I think they are - GHRP i will start at 200-300mcg a day and build up from there - i have experience with slin, so recognise low glucose symptoms easier than most already, i am looking for better bodycomposition with increased nutrient intake - leading to further gains on cycle really. I think this is reasonable with this peptide.

The IGF also seems to be optimal at 20-50mcg a day. It is suggested that it can be used UPTO 100mcg a day, although intestinal growth is much more likely, and that 50 days is the max time on.
I do believe that 50 days is long enough for results to cease coming from the IGF - without MGF due to the use of all the satellite cells.
Plus intestinal growth (and muscular) is not immediate so doses should be chosen and controlled from the out, without being increased on the 'feel' like many other drugs.

If ran with PegMGF, then i think EOD - 5x/wk would be optimal for the IGF, so as to dose the two peptides on different days, and allow a longer period on - the full 50 days.
If i don't run MGF, then i may run 40mcg ED over 28 days instead, to make best use of the satellite cells i have, and then take time off to recover them afterwards.

Thoughts? :wink:

I will be running an IV GH cycle relatively soon, but i wanted to try these (only slightly) cheaper peptides for now.

Brook


#2

I wouldnt think there are issues with running both peptides together- and agree with both would be better than alone.

IMO, i would think running the igf 30days on and 30days off might come off as a better option - you might want to consider running it at 60mcg ed and do GHRP on two of the toughest training days? jmo though… With the amount of peptides you’re getting, you’ll be able to run it considerably for some time!

damnit pls pls tell me how it comes along, im literally drooling all over my mac, better clean it up so i wont waste money shopping for a new one instead of saving up for cycles like yours;)


#3

Just in principle, not from practical experience or knowledge of others’ track records with it, it doesn’t at all seem to me either that GHRP-6 could be counterproductive with IGF-1.

Myself I’m going to try something that I think is interesting, and is inexpensive and which perhaps you might want to try if it appeals to you.

There’s an interesting study showing the combination of GHRP-6 and GHRH to be far more effective than either alone: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10583306?ordinalpos=102&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

The main objective of the study was to study effects of dexamethasone – a glucocorticoid – on GH release, which was triggered by either GHRP-6 alone (1 mcg per kg), GHRH (100 mcg), or both together; either after dexamethasone treatment or not.

Without the dexamethasone, GHRP-6 yielded area-under-the-curve GH of 2300 mU min/l, while GHRH yielded a statistically-not-necessarily-different AUC of 2900. But the two together gave an AUC of 10,000!

(Figures are rounded.)

If anyone cares about the effect of dexamethasone, it increased the effect of GHRP-6, but not of GHRH or the combination.

I’m not aware of a source of GHRH (not that such doesn’t exist) but CJC1295 (modified) works the same.

I would surely think I am not the first to suggest the combination: undoubtedly this is an already-tried thing: it is simple lack of knowledge that I don’t know of cases.


#4

[quote]warriorathlete wrote:
I wouldnt think there are issues with running both peptides together- and agree with both would be better than alone.

IMO, i would think running the igf 30days on and 30days off might come off as a better option - you might want to consider running it at 60mcg ed and do GHRP on two of the toughest training days? jmo though… With the amount of peptides you’re getting, you’ll be able to run it considerably for some time!

damnit pls pls tell me how it comes along, im literally drooling all over my mac, better clean it up so i wont waste money shopping for a new one instead of saving up for cycles like yours;)[/quote]

lol! Well - I am no richer than the next man.

It was while i was ‘bettering’ my GH prices, ahead of my planned GH run (likely leading upto a show) when i came across a good price for the peptides.

In actual fact, this run will cost less than $200 - and my full GH run will not be considerably more than that.

I will try to keep a thread (this one or a new one) updated, as while i am not usually a fan of logs - i did find the logs by ‘Cortes’, ‘Gerdy’ and ‘2thePain’ among others, very useful (as i do most of the aforementioned posts) and i guess the use of both peptides simultaneously while using high dose AAS may prove useful to others too as there aren’t many logs on that AFAIK.

As for your cycle suggestions - yeah… i was thinking of maybe running the IGF for a shorter time - i know 50 days is the supposed max length as far as results - but most of the personal accounts suggest that any results during the use of the peptide tend to diminish after 4 weeks or so… possibly due to satellite cell differentiation.
So you may be correct that 30 days may be AS productive…

One milligram is the most i want to use for the first IGF run, and that would allow approx. 60mcg/day (EOD) over 30days. BUT would this dose become more gut growing than 40mcg? Possibly… but would more come from it?
It is hard to say… i mean i intend to reconstitute one vial and use that for the run, regardless. This means 40mcg over 50 days, 60mcg over 30 days or just 40mcg over 30 days and waste some - it is cheap enough so this isn’t really an issue, but it does stick in my throat IF i could be gaining from it instead!
Thoughts are welcome.

Thanks for the input :wink:


#5

Please keep as detailed a log as possible, buddy.

'Cause I’m going to be following it very closely indeed.


#6

Is there any reason you are going with GHRP-6 over a GHRH analog?


#7

I get GHRP-6 for $3 per 5mg… whereas CJC is $40 (IIRC).

My GH run will cost approx $300-400 and there is no point me spending that on peptides - i may as well just go straight for the GH.

So due to this, i have decided to do a IGF run and added some GHRP for very little extra.

Many suggest injecting the IGF-1 LR3 bi-laterally, and i likely will - just in case. However i thought that due to the actions of the modified LR3, it avoids binding and deactivation, so gives a more systemic effect as it travels around the body, rather than localized.
This means it need not be injected daily, and also need not be injected bi-laterally.
With the first IGF-1, the peptide didn’t make it out of the muscle before binding, so it gave more site specific growth - but required highly frequent injections and a higher dose (cost).

I will be reading up on this more over the next week or so… but i would appreciate any further knowledge added… :wink:

I have reduced my order to 2mg IGF-1 LR3 and 35mg GHRP-6.


#8

Three dollars per 5 mg of GHRP-6?? Many places want more than $3 for a single empty sterile vial!

I pay $30.

Agreed that CJC1295 (modified) is a lot more expensive (my source is $45 per 2 mg), and certainly less cost-effective on its own, but if you notice my post above, the combination quite likely is despite the high price of the GHRH-analogue still more cost-effective than GHRP-6 alone.

That is, figuring GHRP-6 at $30 per 5 mg.

At $3, no.


#9

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Three dollars per 5 mg of GHRP-6?? Many places want more than $3 for a single empty sterile vial!

I pay $30.

Agreed that CJC1295 (modified) is a lot more expensive (my source is $45 per 2 mg), and certainly less cost-effective on its own, but if you notice my post above, the combination quite likely is despite the high price of the GHRH-analogue still more cost-effective than GHRP-6 alone.

That is, figuring GHRP-6 at $30 per 5 mg.

At $3, no.[/quote]

I read your posts, and decided to read up on GHRH analogues and what could be/is possible before commenting further - i still intend to :wink:

Even if CJC was $40 for 2mg (and it is for me too), then with GHRP at $30 OR $3, it’s still more than worth it to add to the GHRH to ‘beef it up’ - for less.

I vaguely remember reading a while ago that the two (GHRP/GHRH) could possibly achieve a very good and cheaper alternative to GH (as GH cost then, not these days IME) as they stimulate GH release in different ways… but for now it is too vague so will look into it too :slight_smile:

B


#10

I haven’t tried it myself (combining the two) but am going to pretty shortly.

As at the moment I’m trying to economize, I’m planning on a rate of just 10 mg GHRP-6 per month and 6 mg of the CJC-etc, for intended 3x/day dosing. This is lower dose CJC than used in the study (67 mcg vs 100) and a little higher GHRP-6, but my guess from the synergy seen in the study that the combination will likely be substantially more effective than the 5 mg per week rate (so about 20 mg per month) that I was using GHRP-6 at. Not knowing whether it is really the best thing to truly maximally stimulate the pituitary for GH release so often, I’m not concerned about this not being maximal. Simply being say perhaps 50% more effective than what was already quite satisfactory would be fine for me at this time.

Now in my case, for some reason while I rapidly developed neuropathy from effective (4 IU/day) GH use, the peptide use which surprisingly was at least as good (in my case, by no means to I suggest this will be true for others) has given no such problems at all.

For most others, cost-effective GH probably does make more sense.


#11

I noticed that in one of the first posts - that you are not intending on using higher dose of the individual peptides, shooting for an unknown maximum effect, but a lower dose of each, to try to recreate the effect of a higher dose of the one peptide (in this case the GHRP).

Is the reason for this financial, or experimental/scientific?
OR is it due to the fact that when you did use a dose of GH that is considered to be the lowest effective dose, you experienced side effects quickly?

Brook


#12

There is a huge thread about this at another site (is it OK to post links to other sites?):

www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37381


#13

A interesting article - fairly old news but of interest to the thread - about CJC-1295:

anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/50813-cjc-1295-8-a.html


#14

Brook how are you planning to divide those G6 doses? Evenly over 3-4 doses. Extra post workout and or pre bedtime? Also do I understand correctly you plan to start at 200-300mcg and graduate up until you reach the 500-700mcg point?

From what I’ve heard you might wanna play on eating a lot more food once you reach that 500-700mcg level especially if its ED and divided throughout the day.

Interestingly a lot of G6 guys dont run it ED but just 4-5 times a week. I know the G6 is dirt cheap but you might wanna just think about it. Also there have been a few guys who have talked about lactation problems on the G6. If you’re running Deca or tren while also on the G6 that could be a potential issue. I cannot recall from memory how much gyno issues, specifically nor19 gyno, you’ve had. But just have your eyes wide open for all potential little things like that.

Im also going to be starting the G6 in a bit so Im going to be learning from you and your log JJ.


#15

Does anyone have any further information on the systemic effects of IGF over the site specific?

As i mentioned above, i personally believe morte in the systemic effect - and i recently read this too - not scientific, but interesting nonetheless:

“Many have thought before including myself that IGF-1 produced localized growth which to some degree is true but this is due to the splice variant of IGF-1 called MGF or IGF-1Ec which only exists in skeletal muscle. Our bodies will naturally produce more IGF-1 after exercising as part of the recovery proccess and also MGF will be released in order to restore damage fibers so if anyone had localized growth with igf-1 was because of the extra MGF produced by the IGF-1. Knowing this I just inject the MGF IM on muscles I want to improve and inject the IGF-1 sub-q for a systemic effect, no reason to inject them both on same site as it can oversaturate satellite cells and have the opposite effect, see there are ways you can use these peptides that can be beneficial and some that may just not work due to the way is being administered, dosage and schedule.”

I am not sure about the last part of the sentance, but the bit about the localised growth effect seems to ring true to me cross-referenced with other things i have read…

Brook


#16

[quote]saps wrote:
Brook how are you planning to divide those G6 doses? Evenly over 3-4 doses. Extra post workout and or pre bedtime? Also do I understand correctly you plan to start at 200-300mcg and graduate up until you reach the 500-700mcg point?

From what I’ve heard you might wanna play on eating a lot more food once you reach that 500-700mcg level especially if its ED and divided throughout the day.

Interestingly a lot of G6 guys dont run it ED but just 4-5 times a week. I know the G6 is dirt cheap but you might wanna just think about it. Also there have been a few guys who have talked about lactation problems on the G6. If you’re running Deca or tren while also on the G6 that could be a potential issue. I cannot recall from memory how much gyno issues, specifically nor19 gyno, you’ve had. But just have your eyes wide open for all potential little things like that.

Im also going to be starting the G6 in a bit so Im going to be learning from you and your log JJ.[/quote]

Good to have your input - you don’t post as much as i’d enjoy anymore.

To answer your question, yes i will be dosing multiple times a day, and probably using a higher dose before bed too - as Gerdy did in his thread. I may alsdo be tempted to do extra post workout, to take advantage of the PWO window - in Gerdy’s thread he was concerned about eating after using G6, which would spike insulin, which acts in direct opposition to GH… BUT i have also read that insulin while acting in opposition to GH itself, it increases the response of GH to G6. Confusing huh? Maybe i will get this benefit with the use of Insulin-like Growth Factor-1…? :wink:

I know that 500-700mcg is a dose that will increase food intake massively, and this is what i am looking for - coupled with a decent AAS dose (1g Test likely) this should prove decently anabolic. However i have read that 200mcg is very effective - albeit a little less drastic, and should provide good gains when used with AAS.

I am starting at the 200mcg mark to feel the effect it has on food intake, and depending on appetite will increase accordingly - likely around 400-500mcg/day… 100mcg-150mcg doses are where i think i will be dosing… with higher doses being used post workout and before bed i think.

As for frequency, i am thinking about 4x/wk or so… but not solid on that yet - it isnt scientifically backed up.

And the lactation - yes i have heard of this too… I am due some caber soon, plus i will be running 1g of test and if i run anything else, it will likely be 350mg Tren (instead of 500) and/or 500mg Mast…

Well see :wink:


#17

[quote] Brook wrote:
I noticed that in one of the first posts - that you are not intending on using higher dose of the individual peptides, shooting for an unknown maximum effect, but a lower dose of each, to try to recreate the effect of a higher dose of the one peptide (in this case the GHRP).

Is the reason for this financial, or experimental/scientific?
OR is it due to the fact that when you did use a dose of GH that is considered to be the lowest effective dose, you experienced side effects quickly?

Brook[/quote]

Actually, aiming to get what I am guessing is a probably a minimum of 50% more GH production than I got last time from 5 mg/week of GHRP-6.

It’s a combination of thinking a probable 50% minimum jump up as being a reasonable next step to try; that I’ll be going for 3 pulses per day so actually the CJC-etc dose will be twice as much per day as in the study, therefore not so low as it sounds; not being sure (just don’t know) if it’s wise to crank the pituitary to max possible 3x/day every day; as you point out, wondering if I might suffer neuropathy side effects from too big a jump up in GH production relative to my GHRP-6 use, since I have suffered that before from not-extreme GH use; and as you say, financial.


#18

I injected 30-40mcg (it has been a long while so don’t remember exactly) in each bicep for 20-30 days. At the time (maybe 2003 or so) people were raving about the site injections with the LR3, even though as you said it makes more sense with the older form of IGF-1.

I was not taking any AAS at the time mind you. Personally, I did not see anything out of the ordinary as far as localized growth is concerned.

Of course, I couldn’t really pin down any effects for certain other than maybe feeling a little leaner. Could have been bad IGF-1 also.


#19

OK - so i am thinking of the following for the run - any opinions always welcome!

Wk1-6 (Blast) 1000mg Test E or Prop
Wk1-6 525mg Tren A
Wk1-6 Drol or dbol - for IGF mainly.
Wk1-6 AI

IGF

Either:

Wk1-4 60mcg 4x/wk
or
Wk1-4 100mcg 4x/wk
or
Wk1-4 40mcg on 3 off days with 80mcg on the 4 training days.

GHRP

Wk1-4 (or 6 depending on comfort with food intake and weight gain) 500mcg ED
or
Wk1-4/6 500mcg on 3 off days with 700mcg on the 4 training days.

The thought behind these plans are the following: With the IGF on this site it is recommended you take alot less than anywhere else i have read - and while it may be true, it simply isn’t known yet. I have seen some good data suggesting that a low dose of IGF produces the same muscle weight increases as a high dose, BUT with the higher dose you get a significantly higher protein content of the muscle - which suggests to me better anabolism in the future

So… i am not going to go with the 40mcg protocol, but i am not sure that 100mcg is necessary. I think that PWO is the best time as IGFBP-4 is lowest then and MGF is highest too. I do not think the AM/PM dosing is necessary - according to the belief it has a 12 hour half-life.

I don’t think that IGF levels need to be as stable as Test… i mean when i use MGF i will NOT be using the peg version as i believe the regular version gives more results - especially to lagging groups. It is easier to dose alongside IGF1LR3 too… i digress a little.

With the GHRP, it is obviously used mainly as an appetite increaser - with the GH benefits being the plus side from what i read. It will assist with any potential negative feedback from the IGF, and the insulin like effects from the IGF may increase the GH response to the GHRP.
So i am going to use at least 500mcg a day… split into two injections, likely 200mcg AM and 300mcg PM or post-workout.
If i decide to use more on workout days, i will use 700mcg and dose in the AM, PWO and before bed (200/200/300)…

Thoughts?


#20

This is only a one-case outcome that may not apply to others.

But for me GHRP-6 worked better. Not as an appetite increaser, but as the pecs and traps looking noticeably better in a manner that I don’t at all think would have happened with it.

I’ve used IGF-1LR3 only once previously at 100 mcg 2x/day for only 10 days, and now presently at 2 mg being divided into 28 days’ worth and 3 weeks into it.

The first time I noticed nothing in terms of improved physique or performance, though I did notice being able to eat more without apparently an increased rate of getting fatter. This second time around, a cutting situation, I am noticing nothing of any kind.

THe first was with, I forget, probably 100 mg/day each TA and TP. The second, 50 mg/day TA and 100 IU/day HCG. Basically results were and are the same as I’d expect with the androgens alone.

Short trials, one person, your mileage may vary.