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IFing and Morning Conditioning Work


#1

About two training days per week, I need to fit in some high intensity conditioning work in the morning. Since I IF..I'll be in the fasted state. I'll be weight training later in the afternoon...should I??

Morning sprints - 10g BCAAs pre/during?

Go about the day..water, coffee..

4pm - 10g BCAAs weight train

Should I include the BCAAs before the sprints? Should I just do them totally fasted, no BCAAs?

I have to fit them in the morning.


#2

I personally wouldnt sprint in a fasted state, it will lead to poor performance in your training session later on. Also will burn more muscle than it would fat. CT put out a study showing fasted cardio didnt lead to greater calorie burn or fat loss. Just some food for thought, but you can do what you want.


#3

So it would be best to do so after my weight training session in the evening..like a 15 min sprint session..then my pwo meal? BCAAs during training/sprints.

I've been weight training fasted with just BCAAs with really good results for months now.. Couldn't see why the bcaas wouldnt work for the morning conditioning. I'm not doing this for fatloss btw..this is conditioning work. I let diet and some very moderate LISS dictate fatloss..if I even choose to do LISS


#4

I think that anyone responding should just assume that the whole idea is sub-optimal because many aren't really believers in IFing in general.

OP, I do 10 minutes of intervals when I wake up. Granted, I eat a meal after in order to lift roughly 2 hours after the sprinting is completed. The 10 minutes basically consists of 30 seconds of jogging, then intervals where I sprint as long as I can, jog until my breathing hits a certain point (i.e. not gasping for air), then sprinting again, followed by another 2 minutes or so of just jogging.

Unless you're not in good shape (which does not apply to you), I don't think it will be a problem. Additionally, I don't think that it will affect you one way or the other to take BCAAs.

One alternative, btw, would be to either do the 15 minutes of intervals or cut it to 10 mins and add it to the back end of your workout. Why not do that?


#5

Thanks for the response...really appreciate it. I think that is definitely a good idea..add it to the back end of training sessions for about 10 mins. It might be a bit difficult on deadlift or squat days..but, I'm thinking I could include it after my upper body days.

That or do it on certain off days. The reason I chose to include it on days that I already train is so that there isn't an overlap between recovery in my legs from sprints and recovery from squatting. For instance..if I did intervals on a Saturday which is a rest day...when I squat on Sunday..it will probably be suboptimal. If I included them after my squat day though..the sprints may be affected somewhat but, my main priority is weight training anyway. There won't be overlap in recovery periods because those intervals might as well just be considered part of leg day..get me?

I had to do them this morning because I work today and am training later than usual..so I probably wouldn't have much time to do the interval work after..

For the record, I just finished an approximate 10 minute session..I had about 10g bcaa prior just to be safe.


#6

You could try both approaches as to doing it on on days and off days. Try for 2 week and see how recovery goes. Your body will most likely adapt to the added work on off days. The first week maybe not so much but after a week or 2 your body will get used to it and have no problem. In HS i was doing 2hr hockey sessions everday 30-1hr of that was all out conditioning. Also lifting 5 days a week and doing some conditioning for hockey after practices. Sucks at the start of the season but you get used to it.


#7

Was actually going to say: since you're doing 5/3/1, why not just do 10 mins of intervals on bench/overhead press days and then 15 mins on the three off days (assuming you're doing 4days/week).


#8

Sprinting and weightlifting roughly stress the same metabolic systems. 10gms of bcaa should be fine. People workout fasted all the time when they follow IF. Though granted I couldnt sprint early in the morning and then go have a good weight workout later in the day. But Im a pussy so if it works for you, try it.


#9

Though this seems like it should be true -- sprinting & lifting imposing similar anaerobic demands -- personal experience says otherwise (ie. one fasted sprints session was enough to know it sucks)

re: sprints, I also think its incorrect to place fat loss ahead of performance. Fuel for success, push yourself hard and let the fat loss afterwards take care of itself (and it will)


#10

I asked the same thing in this thread:

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/fasted_morning_cardio

I was told by several posters that BCAAs would not prevent muscle loss from doing HIIT fasted.


#11

i would try it and see. you may be surprised, i was sprinting every morning including squat day and my numbers didnt go down

i didnt notice any muscle loss but not saying it didnt happen


#12

OP keep in mind that full blast sprints have a similar stress on the body as heavy squats or deadlifts. Not necessarily from a muscular perspective, but central nervous system and other physiological aspects. I would be less concerned about sprinting faster vs. non-fasted, and more concerned about how you program them into your routine without affecting your strength levels on squats or deadlifts. You don't want to sprint the day before squatting or deadlifting. I think doing them on the same day as deadlifts and / or upper body works. Make sure you do the deadlifts first though (maybe a morning workout with sprint session in the evening).


#13

I didnt sprint, but kickboxed/muay thai in the mornings and lifted in the afternoons for 2 weeks straight, while following IF. I think that it is widely agreed upon that BCAAs are necessary when training while in a fasted state, and would highly suggest them, both from what i've read and what i've experienced. As for when to do it, sprinting after a lifting session is the LAST thing i wanna do, I love it being the middle of the day and realizing i already did my cardio. Besides, most of the time i was half asleep and didnt even remember doing it that morning. I would stick with the morning plan.

However, from another thread in which you laid out your basic macros, training twice a day on such low calories will prove exhausting, and i'd wager you'd respond negatively to such extreme a plan.


#14

I've upped my calories back to approx. maintenance level..perhaps SLIGHTLY over. Those calorie levels that I described were for the last 2 weeks of a seemingly 10 week long cut..


#15

I think this is one of those instances where you need to just not overthink things, man. Just do your original plan, see how it goes, and make adjustments accordingly.


#16

This thread interests me because I just adopted IF in Jan.
But in a couple weeks feb 16th I have to start doing things like pt in the morning (army, so things like running/body weight exercises) so this is really messing with my mind since I train in the afternoon around 4-6pm .

I've been thinking about waking up at 3 in the morning lifting with bcaas around 4 in the morning doing pt at 0630 in the morning and pulsing with one or two humapro eaa shakes til noon and begin feasting. But I have yet to decide what I'm going to do I just figure pulsing could be useful in this situation.


#17

So why are you doing conditioning work?


#18

Following Wendler's 5/3/1 ...and he says the conditioning is part of the program. I like to follow things as they are laid out...


#19

I dont know if thats wise on a severely calorie restricted diet (im assuming your still losing fat). Id probably wait until you get back to maintainence or above calories. How many days are you doing 5/3/1 a week?


#20

For what it's worth, he would probably also say that IFing while doing his program is dumb. Or at least that training fasted is dumb.

But again, we're only talking about 15 minutes here. You can probably do it with minimal negative consequence--give it a shot and report back, lol. Since IFing seems to be the new craze sweeping the nutrition forum, it would probably actually be quite informative for others.