T Nation

If You Had to Choose...

Supplements and Nutrition
#1

If you HAD to choose one supplement for the purpose of building lean mass and burning fat at the same time, what would it be, and why.

(By supplement, I mean something besides Protein/Creatine)

I’m currently trying to gain weight, but slowly. I’m eating very clean, but not too excessive. I don’t want to gain any more fat. I’d say I am around 11-13% right now. Visible abs, but some excess softness I’d like to get rid of.

Current stats:
6’ 0.5"
194 lbs
11-13% body fat (estimating)

My goal is to be 210 lbs at approx. 9% And I know that’s about a year away. What’ll get me there the fastest.

I train like a bastard.

#2

For that, you should try Carbolin 19 or HRX.

Nice avatar.

#3

Cool. Well I’m on my 4th week of Carbolin 19 right now, and I’m hoping to see some results soon. I’ve noticed that my heart rate is a lot lower when I do my 25 minutes of cardio after I lift heavy. I used to be around 175-180 bpm and now I don’t get over 165, and usually hover between 155-160.

Other than that… It’s hard to tell what’s a placebo effect and what’s a real deal.

#4

Carbolin 19 is more of a long time suppliment. You’ll see more of a drastic change in a few months rather than in a few weeks.

How old are you?

#5

[quote]Gorgeous wrote:
If you HAD to choose one supplement for the purpose of building lean mass and burning fat at the same time, what would it be, and why.

(By supplement, I mean something besides Protein/Creatine)

I’m currently trying to gain weight, but slowly. I’m eating very clean, but not too excessive. I don’t want to gain any more fat. I’d say I am around 11-13% right now. Visible abs, but some excess softness I’d like to get rid of.

Current stats:
6’ 0.5"
194 lbs
11-13% body fat (estimating)

My goal is to be 210 lbs at approx. 9% And I know that’s about a year away. What’ll get me there the fastest.

I train like a bastard.[/quote]

Here’s your issue. You’re working against your goal. It is easier to get to 210 and 9% by eating big than eating clean.

I’d be interested in seeing a diet breakdown. I don’t mean what you eat food by food, that’s ridiculous, but simply a macro breakdown and total caloric value.

Your desire and thought process to eat clean to add 20lbs of lean mass is skewed.

#6

Oh yah. The one supp I’d take to meet the goals you have chosen…

Flameout

#7

I would use Spike. It’s one of the best supplements Biotest have made. I wasn’t a big fan of Carbolin 19. I loved the old Methoxy 7, though I haven’t used the new version.

#8

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Here’s your issue. You’re working against your goal. It is easier to get to 210 and 9% by eating big than eating clean…

Your desire and thought process to eat clean to add 20lbs of lean mass is skewed. [/quote]

What do you mean by clean? Maybe I’m defining clean different than the vets on this site. I wouldn’t see big and clean as mutually exclusive. By that I mean intelligently planned above maintenance calories obtained from quality non junk food sources, in short. I’m asking this as a serious question.

–Tiribulus->

#9

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Here’s your issue. You’re working against your goal. It is easier to get to 210 and 9% by eating big than eating clean…

Your desire and thought process to eat clean to add 20lbs of lean mass is skewed.

What do you mean by clean? Maybe I’m defining clean different than the vets on this site. I wouldn’t see big and clean as mutually exclusive. By that I mean intelligently planned above maintenance calories obtained from quality non junk food sources, in short. I’m asking this as a serious question.

–Tiribulus->[/quote]

Certainly you can eat clean and big. However, it has been my experience on here that when people speak of clean they mean lite and low fat. The way I interpreted his opening post was the basis of my response.

#10

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Here’s your issue. You’re working against your goal. It is easier to get to 210 and 9% by eating big than eating clean…

Your desire and thought process to eat clean to add 20lbs of lean mass is skewed.

What do you mean by clean? Maybe I’m defining clean different than the vets on this site. I wouldn’t see big and clean as mutually exclusive. By that I mean intelligently planned above maintenance calories obtained from quality non junk food sources, in short. I’m asking this as a serious question.

–Tiribulus->

Certainly you can eat clean and big. However, it has been my experience on here that when people speak of clean they mean lite and low fat. The way I interpreted his opening post was the basis of my response. [/quote]

That IS what most of these people mean. Most of them are also listing low calorie diets that they somehow expect to grow muscle off of. That is why I hate “clean” as a term for food…because newbies will think this means avoid high calorie foods because they are “dirty”. I would bet that very few people are eating big meals to meet their requirements from their definition of “clean foods”.

#11

…stanolozol…

#12

A good long estered test.

#13

I think Carbolin 19 is the ‘real deal’…I have been using HOT-ROX and/or Alpha Male which both contain Carbolin 19 for the last few months. I have been on a very caloric restricted diet (2000 cal plus or minus) and a cheat day. My scale weight has changed very little in the last 6 weeks (hovering around 200) but my BF% and waist measurement have continued to drop.

That’s pretty impressive IMHO…any retention and/or building of muscle while only consuming 2000 cal/day for a 200 pound guy is beyond my expectations of Carbolin 19.

#14

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Certainly you can eat clean and big. However, it has been my experience on here that when people speak of clean they mean lite and low fat. The way I interpreted his opening post was the basis of my response. [/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
That IS what most of these people mean. Most of them are also listing low calorie diets that they somehow expect to grow muscle off of. That is why I hate “clean” as a term for food…because newbies will think this means avoid high calorie foods because they are “dirty”. I would bet that very few people are eating big meals to meet their requirements from their definition of “clean foods”[/quote]

Alright, now I understand. Had me confused for a minute there. I was thinking “these guys can’t be recommending a 7-11 diet for gaining mass?”. Looking at it that way it’s definitely true that a lot of guys show up here full of misconceptions about food thinking they’re going to get big and lean eating a 4 ounce chicken breast and a handful of raisins.

–Tiribulus->

#15

I’m going to try and answer a few questions here.

I’m 25

By eating clean, what I meant was I’m bulking carefully. My daily caloric intake on training days is between 3800 and 4300, and non training days around 3500. I’m eating a ton of boneless skinless chicken breast, salmon, eggs (minus 50% of the yolks) whole grain rice, broccoli, peanut butter, protein shakes, oatmeal, bananas. I avoid as many saturated fats and bleached flour as possible. But I do have a cheat day here and there where I’ll indulge in some steak or things of that sort.

I’m definitely not restricting my calories in any way, I’m just mindful of what I’m putting into my body. I’d rather have 4000 calories of protein, fresh vegies and all my vitamins/minerals than 4000 calories of fatty low quality meats, ice cream etc.

So it looks like a lot of you feel I should stick with my Carbolin 19 and I’ll see the results I’m looking for?

#16

@ Gorgeous:

You’re halfway there buddy and nobody was picking on you BTW. I apologize for asking the question in your thread, it just struck me odd. In my opinion you need more fat and some more “cheating” with that “cheap fatty meat” and steak. I mean that seriously. Your’re on the right track, but some good old fashioned manfood judiciously consumed will not get you “fat” and will greatly aid in creating an anabolic environment in your body. I consider whole eggs, steak and chicken with the skin “clean”. I don’t think I’ll be alone in that estimation.

–Tiribulus->

#17

Believe it or not, I would have to say HOT-ROX Extreme. With the addition of Carbolin 19 and the protein synthesis effect of A7-E and Scaremax it is very anabolic not even mentioning the fat slicing effect which is it’s main purpose.

Also, have to mention Alpha Male for the test boosting action and Carbolin 19 as well.

D

#18

I didn’t feel picked on, no worries. Thanks though.

I’ll take what you said into consideration, for sure. Maybe have a few more manfoods lol.

Just a brief background on me: In ollege where I stayed quite active (graduated in Dec. '02 @ 6’1" 165lbs) I was always pretty lean because of my metabolism.

Jump ahead 3 years and that’s about how long I had been sedintary. I didn’t look bad by any means, but I wasn’t anywhere near my potential. It had been a solid 2 years of not training whatsoever, and eating McDonalds religiously. In Feb '06 I was a soft 177lbs, about 15-18% BF.

That’s when I started doing what I’m doing now. 4 days a week of heavy training. Started taking protein twice a day, and eating properly. Cut out the fast food and crap and began cooking all my meals.

So that brings us to here. At my all time heaviest of 194. I’ve never lifted so much and enjoyed it so much. It’s my life now, and I love it. I’m becoming obsessed.

#19

At 25, you could use Alpha Male, which also contains a full dose of Carbolin 19.

#20

Steak