If War is So Bad...

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Alternatively, since we’re pretty successful at reproduction, maybe we’re hard wired to keep the population from rising too quickly. Imagine the population worldwide if we were a completely peaceful species![/quote]

Birth control is the real solution, it’s a shame that so many people are viscerally opposed to it.

Since it can’t be enforced the best thing that could happen to humanity is an organisation who design and drops a chemicals that makes human womens infertile in the water all around the world. Let’s say one stereoisomer of the chemical makes a women immune to the other who makes the women infertile. Then the population of the earth could drop without completely destroying itself.

And I am really sorry for the people unhappy because they can’t have child that looks like them, you’ll get over it. Or makes us a favor and adopt one that lives in misery.

22

[quote]THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
Bush said the American Economy was built on war. Just think if we fired every soldier How unemployment would SKYROCKET
[/quote]

Yes, yes… and just think if we downsized government,… all those people out of jobs. We can’t have that! Oooh and downsizing of politicians. How are they going to survive without taking our money from us?
[/quote]

I think the real problem is not the lack of job – I mean it would be hard but if I have a little bit of sense I don’t really need someone else to give me a job to survive. What you need to do is 1. get food and 2. get a place to sleep . In our society it’s NOT hard to achieve both of these things .

At least half of the food that is processed here goes directly to the garbage. Or if civilisation completely collapse I can go hunt in the north of Qc or become a farmer. With all the machinery and technology and some creativity it wouldn’t take a lot of years to be comfortable again.

I think the problem with the lack of job is not the survival part but all of the people who wouldn’t know what to do with their existence if they didn’t have a school or a job place to go to every day.

23

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

It’s in our DNA. We are hard-wired for conflict and survival of the fittest. In modern times, it translates to a struggle for land and power. quote]

I don’t believe that. Once you can provide for all your needs (which is the case for all of us on this forum) you don’t need anything more. Struggling for recognition is the most stupid thing you can do in this live as 1. it’s completely artificial, being something in the eyes of the other is not gonna change anything to what you are and to the problem of existence and 2. you will get any recognition anyway, we are all self-centered individuals.

the real question now is what are you gonna do with your time.

24

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
…then why do we do it, a lot?

[/quote]

$$$$$$$

That was easy.[/quote]

25

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
I think what needs to be asked is why someone would fight for his country. If war is something that profits to a small group of elite then why would I participate in it. Why would I fight anyone that is not directly threatening me.

If a war breaks out don’t expect me pointing a gun on anyone but on the guy that is threatening me, the guy who wants to forcefully recruit my in his army or the guy from another army who has been told to shot me.

Canada or Quebec is getting threatened? Why would I give a shit how good my country is supposed to be. Why would I care if I am part of the new empire of china or anything as long as I am not bothered by any idiots with a gun (or sheperd is what they call themselves I think)

[/quote]

Right now , I am sure the economy is driving young people to the Military. What are they going to do live in their parents basement forever ?

26

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
One of the thoughts I had was that we are predators but our weapons make it too easy to predate animals, so maybe we predate on each other.

Alternatively, since we’re pretty successful at reproduction, maybe we’re hard wired to keep the population from rising too quickly. Imagine the population worldwide if we were a completely peaceful species![/quote]

I think we’re on the same side of this argument, HH. I’m no pacifist. Warfare has existed ever since agriculture became widespread. And I would argue that humans have been competing for resources long before that. With the advent of agriculture (conservatively 12000 years ago) larger populations were able to concentrate and exchange ideas and technology. War was inevitable at that point. More humans = more “pressure” on a given area = conflict.

Frankly, it’s the same concept that formed the Universe: A star collapses and forms a Supernova and MASSIVE amounts of energy are released. This energy produces enough heat to forge every element in the Universe. Civilizations are no different: Friction creates conflict which promotes innovation. The denser the population, the higher the friction. The more people you can feed, the denser the population becomes.

War is simply a by-product of agriculture. The higher population creates more complex social/status structures and energy exchange. Now we have a primitive “economy”. As with every economy, it cycles. Sometimes boom, sometimes bust. When some folks are booming, and others busting, the folks that are booming become VERY attractive targets to those that are busting.

Or you can sometimes have a “borg-like” philosophy of assimilation (pardon the shameless StarTrek reference). That one hasn’t gone away. Does the phrase, “let me win your hearts and minds, or we’ll burn your damn huts down” ring a bell for anyone?

At the end of the day, it’s about survival of the fittest. Individually AND collectively.

And then there is the $$$$$…[/quote]

Very well said. Thousands of years of solving our problems using violence has built the capacity for violence in us. Evolution can be one mean bitch.

27

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
I think what needs to be asked is why someone would fight for his country. If war is something that profits to a small group of elite then why would I participate in it. Why would I fight anyone that is not directly threatening me.

If a war breaks out don’t expect me pointing a gun on anyone but on the guy that is threatening me, the guy who wants to forcefully recruit my in his army or the guy from another army who has been told to shot me.

Canada or Quebec is getting threatened? Why would I give a shit how good my country is supposed to be. Why would I care if I am part of the new empire of china or anything as long as I am not bothered by any idiots with a gun (or sheperd is what they call themselves I think)

[/quote]

Right now , I am sure the economy is driving young people to the Military. What are they going to do live in their parents basement forever ?
[/quote]

There were 15,000 applications for my son’s class of 1,290 at the Naval Academy.

Speaking of which: he is doing his summer cruise in the Pacific at this moment. I hope he isn’t going near the North Korean whack job and that insanity.

28

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
I think what needs to be asked is why someone would fight for his country. If war is something that profits to a small group of elite then why would I participate in it. Why would I fight anyone that is not directly threatening me.

If a war breaks out don’t expect me pointing a gun on anyone but on the guy that is threatening me, the guy who wants to forcefully recruit my in his army or the guy from another army who has been told to shot me.

Canada or Quebec is getting threatened? Why would I give a shit how good my country is supposed to be. Why would I care if I am part of the new empire of china or anything as long as I am not bothered by any idiots with a gun (or sheperd is what they call themselves I think)

[/quote]

It depends on if you regard your country as worthy of fighting for. This is where commonality of principles comes in – if we see Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barack, and Rahm, just ramming through legislation and onerous regulations without regard for us, we start losing a connection. When we see Congress swarming with lobbyists and criminals who get richer by graft and pull than by work, we begin to fall apart as a country. If this process continues for a long enough time, loyalty evaporates and that’s the end of the Republic.

29

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
…then why do we do it, a lot?

The vast majority of people say they hate war but yet we have something like 4400 recorded wars in human history. Doesn’t that seem rather odd to you guys?

This is really not a troll thread, just trying to get an understanding of why people secretly love war. Its like watching lemmings run into the sea – if the lemmings could talk, wouldn’t you like to ask why they do that?

I’m not implying anyone here is a lemming, btw, or anything negative about anyone. :wink:

(Maybe Angry Chicken will join in the discussion. That would be fun.)[/quote]

Because evil exists, and even if you don’t want war, war will be thrust upon you by outside.

30

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
If I could comprehend getting in a fistfight, maybe I’d be able to comprehend war. But at the moment, both really confuse me.[/quote]

Walking along the street in Brookline, MA and getting hit in the head with a brick by a drunk Allstonian because I happen to be a Jewish guy going to worship G-d one Friday night was my last reason to be in a fist fight.

It’s the same reason my daughters all have to serve in the IDF.

People want to kill us for existing, and we refuse to die.

31

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
…then why do we do it, a lot?

The vast majority of people say they hate war but yet we have something like 4400 recorded wars in human history. Doesn’t that seem rather odd to you guys?

This is really not a troll thread, just trying to get an understanding of why people secretly love war. Its like watching lemmings run into the sea – if the lemmings could talk, wouldn’t you like to ask why they do that?

I’m not implying anyone here is a lemming, btw, or anything negative about anyone. :wink:

(Maybe Angry Chicken will join in the discussion. That would be fun.)[/quote]

Because evil exists, and even if you don’t want war, war will be thrust upon you by outside.[/quote]

Exactly - be careful here though, the line between good and evil goes straight through your own heart.

32

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
If I could comprehend getting in a fistfight, maybe I’d be able to comprehend war. But at the moment, both really confuse me.[/quote]

Walking along the street in Brookline, MA and getting hit in the head with a brick by a drunk Allstonian because I happen to be a Jewish guy going to worship G-d one Friday night was my last reason to be in a fist fight.

It’s the same reason my daughters all have to serve in the IDF.

People want to kill us for existing, and we refuse to die.[/quote]

I wish I had been there; I would have helped you brother.

33

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

People want to kill us for existing, and we refuse to die.[/quote]

This is the right attitude, unfortunately America as a whole does not believe this and would rather be idealistic in that the world needs peace, and if we just apphease, and understand the enemy plight, the threats will go away. This is a huge mistake and it only emboldens our enemies. We, as a society in the USA are so diverse, we are going to have a very hard time coming up with any sort of unifed program for society to operate and survive. We see the huge problems in CA, AZ etc. England, France, Spain…these pots are not melting…they are filling with elements like oil and water…who do not assymilate as a single society. This is a dangerous recepie.

I can totally understand the Jewish position. It’s the same mentality I wish the USA had. We had it for about 1-2 years in 2001-2002… then we forget and change/conceal the truth of the threat to us in the world.

34

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
I think what needs to be asked is why someone would fight for his country. If war is something that profits to a small group of elite then why would I participate in it. Why would I fight anyone that is not directly threatening me.

If a war breaks out don’t expect me pointing a gun on anyone but on the guy that is threatening me, the guy who wants to forcefully recruit my in his army or the guy from another army who has been told to shot me.

Canada or Quebec is getting threatened? Why would I give a shit how good my country is supposed to be. Why would I care if I am part of the new empire of china or anything as long as I am not bothered by any idiots with a gun (or sheperd is what they call themselves I think)

[/quote]

Right now , I am sure the economy is driving young people to the Military. What are they going to do live in their parents basement forever ?
[/quote]

There were 15,000 applications for my son’s class of 1,290 at the Naval Academy.

Speaking of which: he is doing his summer cruise in the Pacific at this moment. I hope he isn’t going near the North Korean whack job and that insanity.
[/quote]

5 of my friends kids are going in this year after graduation

35

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

People want to kill us for existing, and we refuse to die.[/quote]

This is the right attitude, unfortunately America as a whole does not believe this and would rather be idealistic in that the world needs peace, and if we just apphease, and understand the enemy plight, the threats will go away. This is a huge mistake and it only emboldens our enemies. We, as a society in the USA are so diverse, we are going to have a very hard time coming up with any sort of unifed program for society to operate and survive. We see the huge problems in CA, AZ etc. England, France, Spain…these pots are not melting…they are filling with elements like oil and water…who do not assymilate as a single society. This is a dangerous recepie.

I can totally understand the Jewish position. It’s the same mentality I wish the USA had. We had it for about 1-2 years in 2001-2002… then we forget and change/conceal the truth of the threat to us in the world.

[/quote]

Israel spends about %9 GDP America about %60 GDP on defense I could handle %9

36

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
If I could comprehend getting in a fistfight, maybe I’d be able to comprehend war. But at the moment, both really confuse me.[/quote]

Walking along the street in Brookline, MA and getting hit in the head with a brick by a drunk Allstonian because I happen to be a Jewish guy going to worship G-d one Friday night was my last reason to be in a fist fight.

It’s the same reason my daughters all have to serve in the IDF.

People want to kill us for existing, and we refuse to die.[/quote]

Yep. My mother was a young grad student in Germany in the 1930’s. They expelled her, confiscated her life’s savings, and took her last cherished possession at the border – a Physics book.

37

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

People want to kill us for existing, and we refuse to die.[/quote]

This is the right attitude, unfortunately America as a whole does not believe this and would rather be idealistic in that the world needs peace, and if we just apphease, and understand the enemy plight, the threats will go away. This is a huge mistake and it only emboldens our enemies. We, as a society in the USA are so diverse, we are going to have a very hard time coming up with any sort of unifed program for society to operate and survive. We see the huge problems in CA, AZ etc. England, France, Spain…these pots are not melting…they are filling with elements like oil and water…who do not assymilate as a single society. This is a dangerous recepie.

I can totally understand the Jewish position. It’s the same mentality I wish the USA had. We had it for about 1-2 years in 2001-2002… then we forget and change/conceal the truth of the threat to us in the world.

[/quote]

Israel spends about %9 GDP America about %60 GDP on defense I could handle %9[/quote]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Don’t ever stop posting.

:slight_smile:

38

Wars are fought because mankind has yet to agree on a more just method of conflict resolution.

39

You are focusing to much on war itself and you are missing the bigger picture. War isn’t the problem. War isn’t in our DNA. War is a symptom of things that are in our DNA that lead to war and other problems.

For example, humans are social animals, we have a need to come together and socialize as a group. But part of our interacting as a social group is the urge to compete to be the Alpha Male or the Alpha Female within our group. This is competition and war is just another form of competition.

When we achieve Alpha status we then have to deal with the psycholigical consequences. ie an inflated ego, which can lead to all kinds of bad behaviour like bullying and starting fights.

40

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