I have read just about all the various threads/articles/links mentioned regarding IF & the Pulse Feast. My intent is to start a new thread where those that are practicing this can update there progress. And hopefully give me some advise as well. I have been doing the Pulse Feast for a month now & am really happy with it. I am convinced that the IF style works for me from all standpoints. I only have the 2 Pulses during day, peri-workout nutrition/supplementation, workout at 4pm, go home & feast. In the gym I'm doing CT's HP Mass program and am getting stronger. My issue going forward is the cost of the MAG-10 in doing the Pulse Feast as its prescribed. So here is what I'm hoping to learn from you experts out there -
For those practicing some form of IF - what are doing (hrs/fast) , supplementation, conditioning & results.
Pulse Feast - Can the MAG-10 be replaced with a cheaper alternative (s)?
If cost is an issue, drop the two pulses during the day and use it before/during your workouts only. People were getting shredded with IF before MAG-10 came out, and it's not necessary to preserve muscle mass in short term fasting. There may be benefits from the perspective of additional anabolism and repeated bouts of hyperaminoacidemia that are brought on by the pulsing, but if you simply cannot afford the extra MAG-10, then using a leangains-style intermittant fasting protocol will be just fine.
What would be best for the 1pm meal? Would some form of protein shake be enough?
As for pre/post nutrition, what supplements do you think are the must haves in order to gain mass & strength?. I'm currently using Creatine, MAG-10, BCSAA's, Whey Protein, and Vitamin C for both.
I can easily go all day without eating, but I worry that I'm not getting the amount of calories or protein I need. During the Feast I get stuffed pretty quick, so I think that I might need to supplement with protein shakes.
Sorry for all the questions - I just know that your one informed dude that is also practicing IF. Thanks
First of all, if your goal is to gain mass, then your average intake is going to have to be above maintenance. Don't ignore the rest of the day's meals because you are so focused on meal timing and workout nutrition. That stuff is all icing on the cake.
As for setting that up, here's how I would recommend doing it: -Total calories for training days should be around 18-20 kcal/lb of body weight -Protein should be roughly 1.5g/lb bw every day -On training days, keep fat intake at or below 50g. Round out the rest of your calories with carbohydrates -On off days, eat just below maintenance (14 kcal/lb) -On off days, set carbohydrates at .75-1g/lb of bodyweight. Round out the rest of your calories with more protein and/or fat.
As for eating schedule. What you have looks good. Your 1pm meal should be small and comprised mainly of carbs and protein. I would advise sticking to solid food sources for this meal as you are going to be unbelievably hungry during your workout if you break the fast with liquids and don't consume solids for another 5 or so hours. One scoop of low carb MD or equivalent protein powder and maybe 1/4 c oats (dry measure) with some raisins would be perfectly fine, as would 4oz chicken/fish/lean beef and 1/2 c rice. Eat this meal 2-3 hours before your workout and you'll be good.
On to supplements, I have only recently started experimenting with MAG-10/Anaconda, so I can't offer much insight into what is best with that, but so far, my best workouts have come after doing the following:
-60 minutes: sugar free energy drink, half of a power bar (the original with all carbs and next to no fat) -10 minutes until end of workout: Sip 1 scoop Anaconda +20 minutes: finish the power bar, scoop of whey protein
I use the powerbars because I just can't justify spending money on finibars when I get a box of powerbars for what a single Finibar costs. I'm sure they are great, as people here love them, but I just can't justify it right now.
From the supplements you have listed, I would use the MAG-10, creatine, and a scoop of BCAA's during your workouts, and sandwich your workouts with carbs. You can use Finibars, powerbars, or even more oatmeal+fruit. Make sure you're not doing ALL starch or ALL sugar, though.
As for the rest of your day, try to get as close to your calorie and macronutrient targets as you can using solid foods. I use a good bit of protein powder and don't really see a problem with it as long as it's not a total substitute for meat in your diet. I do about a pound of meat each day along with 100g of protein from powders. The amount of carbs you will need to eat may be daunting, don't be afraid of pasta (plain or with tomato sauces, not cream, oil, or cheese based sauces), bread, and potatoes. These are perfectly acceptable food sources that were staples for bodybuilders until roughly 12 years ago when the low carb craze hit.
Can you elaborate on the sugar or starch only comment. Reason I ask, is that I break my fast at noon with 8oz chicken, broccoli, and have an appe with PB. So the only carbs I'm really getting are sugar. I do have 2 scoops of protein with PB a few hours.later, and then periworkout nutrition followed by a large dinner.
i IF(switched about 18 months ago) for dietin ill fast 16/8 to 20/4 depending on daily shedule . what works for me is about 12 cal per lb lbm ,pro a 1,25 g per lb lbm 150 g carbs a day and 30 % of cals from fat( about 60/70g aday of which 20g is fish oil). for cardio(after about 15 hr fastin)ill go for a 35/45 min ride fasted with 5g bcaa( in winter ill walk for 45min with no bcaa)then come home have 2.5g creatine+25g whey+75g hi gi carbs n 30 mins later hit the iron for about 60/90 mins then pwo ill have another 2.5g crea+25g whey+75g hi gi carbs then ill have 1 or 2 more meals till i hit my macs/cals for the day and all other carbs will come from vegs n i dont count those .
also i keep cals/macs the same on trainin/non trainin days ive found this works very well for me as the weight/fat keeps goin down(about half a pound/week)n strength/lifts keep going up all be it slowly .tried fasted training but found after about 45 mins my strength was droppin off so thats why i started with carbs pre w/o.as for MAG-10,anaconda etc never tried them too expensive for me
It's just the context of the diet. I set mine up so that I essentially have structured refeeds on training days. I am more interested in recomp and slow changes in bodyweight with this approach, so it's not quite what I would recommend for a pure fat loss diet. Because I am refeeding and the goal is to get carbohydrates into the muscles as quickly as possible, I keep fat very low on these days. I also use chromium and ALA for glucose disposal. Since there is no fat in the pre workout meal to slow things down, a mix of carb sources seems to lead to the most stable energy levels, as pure sugar leaves me crashing and pure starch isn't fast enough.
Your diet looks fine though. At the end of the day, it's about calories. Nutrient timing and supplementation is just icing on the cake.
I have been doing IF and do a 16/8 fast/eating. Its been great. It works really good for school. I don't have to worry about bringing food to classes and preparing meals. I can focus on school when I need to and eating after.
I workout fasted in the morning with BCAA's. Then 2hrs later I have another small dose of BCAA's and then start eating at noon and have another meal around 4 and my last at 8.
In the last 3 months I have gained about 20lbs and feel fat gain has been mostly minimal. Of course I cannot contribute that just to IF but I feel it does help to keep fat gain down if some cardio is done during the fast.
Yeah, I am following something along the lines of the LeanGains with Carb Backloading. I don't really count 1 serving of fruit with my first meal, and then add in carbs periworkout, and post. I train M T Th F, and on Wed, I just have carbs with my dinner. And then on Sat/Sun, I kind of using a looser approach, stick to the same windows, but don't necessarily track macros, just try to get adequate protein in, and maybe have a cheat meal or two (typically something like pizza, or nachos, or something), but try to keep my calories at maintenance.
IF isnt designed for moderate/ long duration workouts. If you read Martin Berkan's primer on IF, you'll see he recommends no more than a couple of heavy sets then a few lighter ones per muscle group. So even with two groups per workout, you're not there for 45 mins
yes but you dont have to follow things to the letter do you , you listen to your body gauge your results and do what works best for you. ive changed/adapted my training/diet over a long period of time by trial and error for what works best for me and i train alot by instinct. when i train shoulders for example ill do four different exercises for shoulers with sl raises, bo lat raises , bradford press , chest supported rows(wide grip ) each exercise for 4 or 5 sets of 6 to 8 reps(thats about 30 mins rest time on its own)and maybe throw in some abs if i havn't done them for a few while.
My workouts last almost 2 hrs. An hour and 15min being pure lifting. My weights have gone up every work out and I am putting on quality mass. You need to try things for yourself and see the results before saying something can't be done.
With doing the HP Mass program outlined by CT, my workouts last 1.5 hours. Im only a little over a month in on this lifting routine coupled with IF. So far so good but its pretty early on and my diet/supplementation is still a work in progress.
Does anyone think there is an ideal lifting strategy (like outlined on Leangains) that should be followed with doing IF?
I believe that it will always come down to what your body responds too. Everyone's body is different and reacts differently to each stimulus. Unfortunately its a lot of trial and error. But thats half the fun.
It comes down to what will give you progress and what you enjoy and can do the rest of your life. My 2 cents anyway.
No, a wider understanding of IF would have you knowing that workouts that are heavily glycogen depleting are suboptimal. Workout length in terms of actual clock time spent in the gym isn't gone into beyond noting Martin's personal preferences.
Agreed. I don't remember reading any restrictions Martin puts on actual length of the workout, although I do think he recommends sticking to 4 exercises or less per workout. He also seems to favor a lower volume/higher intensity style of training (something like reverse pyramid training, for example). That being said, my experience has been that work capacity in a fasted state can be increased much like anything else. When I first started training fasted, I would get gassed rather quickly, especially on higher volume programs. After training fasted for the better part of a year, I can handle higher volume/glycogen depleting workouts without any issues.