T Nation

If Cormier Beats Miocic, Where Would He Rank?


#1

Currently the top 5 heavyweights of all time would have to be:

  1. Prime Fedor
  2. Stipe Miocic
  3. Fabricio Werdum
  4. Cain Velasquez
  5. Junior Dos Santos

and I rank DC as #2 light heavyweight of all time behind Jones but ahead of Chuck, Randy and Gustaffsson

If he beats Miocic I’d put him in the number 4 spot:

  1. Prime Fedor
  2. Stipe Miocic
  3. Fabricio Werdum
  4. DC
  5. Cain

Miocic won’t gain anything from beating DC. Just like he didn’t gain anything from the Ngannou fight. The fight I truly wanted to see was Miocic-Cain as that would’ve made Miocic the GOAT


#2

I think Cormier will win. You have Fedor way too high imo. He never ever fought anybody until way too late in his career and he get beat by some half assed ex-UFC fighters.


#3

Fedor beat Coleman 2x, Randleman, Sylvia, Arlovski, Hunt, Arona, Cro Cop, Noguiera 2x. He went 9 years undefeated


#4

LOL, there’s a real feather in the 'ol cap. I agree with you though; Fedor is the GOAT HW unless Jon Jones comes back and moves up.


#5

He was a UFC champion as was Coleman and Arlovski.


#6

I know, I was (mostly) kidding. I just don’t have a very high opinion of him as a fighter. Those were dark days for the UFC HW division IMO.


#7

Yeah, but name the fighters he won against during that 9 year stretch. All garbage M1 handpicked fighters. All the fighters he fought that you named were on the very backside of their abilities when he fought them…imo. Not saying Fedor is a fraud by any means, just that he was fighting a lot of nobodys. Had he been in the UFC that whole time, he would’ve been mixed in with a lot of equals and would never have made it 3 years undefeated, much less 9 or 10.
Hard for me to rank him because there were always 10 or more heavyweight fighters that were better than any of the ones he was fighting. He never once in his career fought a current top 5 heavyweight…ever. That’s ridiculous. How can you rank someone as the GOAT, who never fought near the best fighters?


#8

Noguiera and Cro Cop were top opposition


#9

And in the primes of their careers.

You can possibly argue that for instance Stipe’s level of competition has been higher, as the sport has continued to evolve and fighters have also evolved. I might counter that Prides ruleset which allowed for soccer kicks, head stomps and no weight limit made Fedor’s reign even more impressive and his fights more dangerous.

But, I could possibly see putting Stipe above Fedor in all time HW rankings if he beats DC (for the same reason people put Ali as HW GOAT ahead of Tyson or Marciano; level of adversity).

Suggesting that anyone else deserves to be above him though, or that he is overrated or had an unimpressive record/career is just “hating” of the worst kind.


#10

Fedor is without doubt the heavyweight goat and in the p4p mix.
Ten years undefeated in the most dangerous weight class of the most dangerous sport!
Not only were most of the guys he fought pretty much all in their prime (Big Nog, Randleman, Coleman, Crocop etcetc), they were also juiced out of their mind.

Vitor took years to find a suitable balance for his body after he ballooned too quickly. When he got the TRT exemption, he looked like a god among man and smashed all his high ranking middleweight opponents violently except Silva (who pissed hot whenever tested btw). This reversed immediately when AAS were not an option anymore.
Similarly, the Hammerhouse monsters would waltz over the majority of their opposition comfortably, with no fear of headkicks and while wearing shoes!

Yes, sure, Fedor got some filler fights,eg Zulu. But let’s be honest here: Champs want to fight as little as possible. No sane heavy champ today accepts a fight without getting something in return. Those extra fights were pure fan service on top of regular fighting.

Also, the skill level: While some aspects surely improved, one big difference in mdoern MMA is proper usage of the cage. If you don’t know how important that is you’re probably new to the sport. In Pride, however, that aspect was nonexistant.

You can even make the point that because there was no wall wrestling and escaping, no stalling, little pointfighting and a long first round is was harder. You’d need more endurance and determination to face those chemical supermen who had an easier time specialising.

@op
If Cormier beat Stipe, his stock goes way up. Stipe is the best MMA heavy for a reason. He has the complete package and makes the best out of it and brings the mental game as well. Cormier will go down as one of the greatest ever.
Felony Fighter Jones is not among these men, as his record is absolutely tainted.


#11

I agree with your general assessment about Fedor (especially like the points about the lack of cage/wall fighting), but I just assume that he was also using some type of PED. I don’t believe he ever fought under USADA-level testing though, so we’ll never know.