T Nation

IF and Two-A-Days


#1

So I'm thinking about trying intermittent fasting. I currently work out two times a day most days. Lifting in the morning (6am), BJJ at night (7pm). Here is my current diet schedule.

5am-Wake up. Greek Yogurt/Granola for Pre-workout meal. 200 mg Caffeine and multivitamin
6-7:30am- Lift/Cardio. 25g whey with 25g maltodextrin and 5g creatine post workout
8am-Breakfast. Scrambled eggs and steak
8am-4pm Work. Lunch at noon is a spinach, chicken, and almond salad
5pm- Pre-workout meal (Tuna and crackers). Usually take a short nap
7-8:30 BJJ. Whey protein and maltodextrin shake after, no creatine
9pm- Liver, onions, and avocado with half a bag of frozen veggies.

I am thinking about IF as a way to help cut some fat and keep my diet simpler. 5 meals is just a lot to do haha. But, because of the 13 hour difference between workouts, it's impossible for me to fit both workouts into the 8 hour feeding window. I've read some stuff that talks about consuming protein before and after the morning workout, but I wasn't sure if doing the two a days would make a difference. My new schedule I'm looking at trying is

5am- Wake up. Mix 2 scoops protein and 5g creatine in shaker bottle. Drink half for breakfast.
6-730- work out. Drink second half of shake.
8-4- Work
1 pm- Feeding period starts. Steak and eggs*
5 pm- Chicken/spinach salad
7-8:30- BJJ. Protein and maltodextrin shake after
9pm- Liver mix with veggies*

*May include more carbs (oatmeal/sweet potatoes?) to balance out loss of calories fromn fewer meals)

I plan on having slight cheat meals on Wednesday and Saturday for dinner (to help with food boredom and to help refeed on carbs). Once a month (Saturday before my deload week starts) I want to take a cheat day, and then do a 24 hour fast on Sunday.

I guess my questions are

  1. Would this schedule work for IF, or should I change it?
  2. Is the maltodextrin useful where I have it, or would it be worth it to consume it in the AM shake.
  3. Is IF even worth it with two a days?

Thanks for the input.


#2

[quote]breakingiron wrote:

  1. Would this schedule work for IF, or should I change it?
  2. Is the maltodextrin useful where I have it, or would it be worth it to consume it in the AM shake.
  3. Is IF even worth it with two a days?

[/quote]

Im no expert on this, but based on my experiences:

  1. I don’t think IF work well with 2 sessions a day. If you are working hard, which is sounds like you are, then you need lots of food and I don’t think the IF schedule fits. Maybe keep IF for rest days?

  2. I have little experience with maltodextrin, so I can’t answer this question. But I would include more carbs in your diet as you are very active. I would prefer rice, potatoes and oatmeal.

  3. Probably not.

Uncle Bird.

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#3

[quote]theBird wrote:

[quote]breakingiron wrote:

  1. Would this schedule work for IF, or should I change it?
  2. Is the maltodextrin useful where I have it, or would it be worth it to consume it in the AM shake.
  3. Is IF even worth it with two a days?

[/quote]

Im no expert on this, but based on my experiences:

  1. I don’t think IF work well with 2 sessions a day. If you are working hard, which is sounds like you are, then you need lots of food and I don’t think the IF schedule fits. Maybe keep IF for rest days?

  2. I have little experience with maltodextrin, so I can’t answer this question. But I would include more carbs in your diet as you are very active. I would prefer rice, potatoes and oatmeal.

  3. Probably not.

Uncle Bird.

tweet[/quote]

Thanks for the reply man. I’ve been experimenting with higher fat than usual and lower carb outside of pre and post workout (hence the maltodextrin) and it seems to work well for me. I feel and look leaner, I’ve been recovering well from my workouts, and I’ve been kicking a lot of ass in the gym. I get some rice and potatoes on my carb refeeds on Wednesdays and Saturdays. If I switched to IF and cut out the pre-workout meals, I would definitely add some more carbs into the meals.

And your concern about working hard with IF was my biggest one as well. Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with trying it, and what they would recommend. I mostly do BJJ for fun and some self defense training.


#4

[quote]breakingiron wrote:
And your concern about working hard with IF was my biggest one as well. Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with trying it, and what they would recommend. I mostly do BJJ for fun and some self defense training.[/quote]

That is my major concern as well. In fact I stopped doing 2-a-days a few years ago, as it was too hard on recovery etc., especially if you are not a full time athlete meaning that you have work/school/family commitments to attend to as well.

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#5

The only person I wouldn’t recommend IF to would be someone who trains multiple times a day, although it can be done. I’ve done it.

First of all that shake in the morning is probably around 300 calories so you already broke the fast with that. It would be better to lift in a fed state and do BJJ fasted, but if you schedule doesn’t allow then drop the cardio and take 10g of BCAAs 10 minutes before you lift and every two hours from there until you have your first meal. Technically this is still not fasting, but it is highly unlikely that you will use the BCAAs for energy. Start your feed with at least 50% of your calories/macros and then have the rest after BJJ or maybe have a smaller dinner and take a snack with you to BJJ.

The fact that you talk about specific foods and not nutrient goals worries me. You need to have specific values for your intake, otherwise you are just guessing and when the time comes when you need to adjust you have no clue what to adjust and what you adjusted before.

Maltodextrin is just a carb source. If you are too full to eat whole foods then sure go ahead and have it, but I prefer eating sweet potatoes or even ice cream before drinking carb powder. Your carb intake also seems incredibly low especially for someone with so much activity.

Caloric and macronutrient intake is much more important that meal timing for body composition and performance so get that settled first.

Good luck man.


#6

How old are you OP?

Assess you’re ability to recover. I was able to do two-a-days when I was under 25. I doubt I could pull it off now.


#7

[quote]therajraj wrote:
How old are you OP?

Assess you’re ability to recover. I was able to do two-a-days when I was under 25. I doubt I could pull it off now.[/quote]

Good point, I doubt you will progress in your lifts if you train two times a day every day unless you have built up a huge work capacity from years of training. Since you are asking here for advice, chances are you haven’t.