T Nation

Idiot Friends on the WM

Today was my first day doing the WM, after fighting and trying to convince my friends to do the WSP i decided to do this as they complained for the lack of direct bicep and triceps work in WSP.

Of course the friends were not impressed, usually leaving the gym in agony is what they consider a good workout, although i noticed both of my friends sweating more then usual. I on the other hand I feel good,not over tired or destroyed, the 10x3 squats were very good, my back feels it pretty well etc.

Of course the quote from one of my friends “do you feel we even did anything because i didn’t”, just annoys me even further because of their lack of wanting to try something new.

So my question is simple, with this program, can you expect more fat loss then muscle gain?

One my stubborn friend in particular feels that if it isn’t a super mass building compound movement its pointless.

Personally I am sick of the no direction, made up 30 minutes before going workouts.

What can i basically expect from doing the WM? I am open to try anything, but I am about to ditch the unimpressed idiot friends, even though their gains are slim to none from what I see, i would think they would want to try something new, oh well.

Why are your friends idiots simply because they don’t want to do what you want to do? If they aren’t getting much from a routine, why would they continue to do it?

Amazing fact: Several people have gotten ridiculously huge and strong without ever having done that particular routine.

Amazing fact #2: Some of those people never followed any routine more sophisticated than “lift really heavy shit several times for several sets and go eat”.

Its not the routine. Its the effort you put into it.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why are your friends idiots simply because they don’t want to do what you want to do? If they aren’t getting much from a routine, why would they continue to do it?

Amazing fact: Several people have gotten ridiculously huge and strong without ever having done that particular routine.

Amazing fact #2: Some of those people never followed any routine more sophisticated than “lift really heavy shit several times for several sets and go eat”.[/quote]

Though I am not one of the many people here who swing from X’s dick, I will say that he is right in so many ways with what he said here. If you have a basic understanding of anatomy and your own body’s reaction to weight training, then I believe you have no better advice than to follow what your body tells you.

The “what do you feel like working today” method, is by far my favorite. It just so happens that it turns out to be a 5 day a week, different body part each day split routine. Thats what my body likes, thats what I give it.

I don’t need someone to tell me how to train. Once you figure that out, you will do much better IMO.

EDIT: Let me throw out there that I’m not saying that the authors here, other guys at the gym, trainers… whatever, don’t have great programs and information to share.

I believe you should do your best to be as diverse and knowledgeable as possible, but take everything with a grain of salt, as your body is very different than your friends, and your friends from yours.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why are your friends idiots simply because they don’t want to do what you want to do? If they aren’t getting much from a routine, why would they continue to do it?

Amazing fact: Several people have gotten ridiculously huge and strong without ever having done that particular routine.

Amazing fact #2: Some of those people never followed any routine more sophisticated than “lift really heavy shit several times for several sets and go eat”.[/quote]

Amazing fact #3: 8 out of every 10 guys I see here have done or are doing everything in the world other than the meat behind amazing fact #2.

That’s not nearly enough amazing facts for them.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Why are your friends idiots simply because they don’t want to do what you want to do? If they aren’t getting much from a routine, why would they continue to do it?

Amazing fact: Several people have gotten ridiculously huge and strong without ever having done that particular routine.

Amazing fact #2: Some of those people never followed any routine more sophisticated than “lift really heavy shit several times for several sets and go eat”.

Amazing fact #3: 8 out of every 10 guys I see here have done or are doing everything in the world other than the meat behind amazing fact #2.

That’s not nearly enough amazing facts for them.

[/quote]

I dont know where you were going with that, but…

Amazing fact #4: The people here who spend the most time worrying about this program or that program are also the ones who weigh and look the same that they did last year.

[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
<<< I dont know where you were going with that, but…

Amazing fact #4: The people here who spend the most time worrying about this program or that program are also the ones who weigh and look the same that they did last year.[/quote]

I was going pretty much there. I’m not even addressing necessarily the efficacy of this or that program, but that people look for the magic on the paper and not the bar. I do believe, as I’ve said a hundred times, the guys who do the best long term develop their own intuitive approach to training which usually isn’t that amazing except that it’s the best way they could be doing it.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
<<< I dont know where you were going with that, but…

Amazing fact #4: The people here who spend the most time worrying about this program or that program are also the ones who weigh and look the same that they did last year.

I was going pretty much there. I’m not even addressing necessarily the efficacy of this or that program, but that people look for the magic on the paper and not the bar. I do believe, as I’ve said a hundred times, the guys who do the best long term develop their own intuitive approach to training which usually isn’t that amazing except that it’s the best way they could be doing it.[/quote]

This is true, however one also does see the type the OP alluded to, who have never grasped that freestyling your training also requires some sort of overall structure and balance. Of course it also requires a certain amount of experience so you know what works for you and what doesn’t, when to push hard and when to back off etc.

Let them do what the FUCK they want to. Give them your advice and a helping hand when they need it.

:slight_smile:

[quote]qwik3r2 wrote:
So my question is simple, with this program, can you expect more fat loss then muscle gain? [/quote]

The answer to that depends more on your diet than on what program you are doing. I did WM a while back, I gained a bunch of muscle and some fat. But I was eating more than maintainence calories. If you are hypocaloric, you will gain less muscle (maybe even lose a little) but lose, rather than gain, fat.

Hopefully not the same guy who vetoed WSP because of the lack of direct arm work :slight_smile:

I think some of the very experienced guys on here forget what it was like being a noob. When I first started going to the gym, I wasted a lot of time just doing what I felt like (which turned out to be 3x8 to failure on every exercise, every day, for a ridiculous number of exercises.) The whole lightbulb physique/chest, bis and abs only routine that people are always making fun of is also the product of noobs just training what they feel like.

Someone who has been lifting for ten years can train “instinctively” and make good progress, because when he does it, he’s actually applying his own expert knowledge of his own body’s responses to different types of training. When a noob tries to do the same thing, he’s more likely to wind up spinning his wheels, because he’s got a bunch of wrong ideas in his head about how to train.

I am not saying that X and others are wrong to say that no particular program is essential for making progress. I do think (and KNOW in my own particular case) that the programs that people like CT and CW write for this site are VERY USEFUL for noobs, because they allow you to learn what a good, balanced program looks like, and (by doing them) how your body responds to different kinds of training.

Well, it’s good to have training partners, but if you’re not making progress doing what they want to do, and they don’t want to change their routine, maybe you don’t have a choice. If that’s the case, and your primary goal is fat loss, try a fat loss program like WSP. It’s pretty intense, though. Last year I did Triple Total Training and 10x3 for fat loss (both CW programs on this site) while dieting, which worked out pretty well. Outlaw strength and conditioning would be another good CW program to think about, and Thibs had a recent one called Destroying Fat.

Don’t spend too much time agonizing over which program. Pick one, commit to it, and do it intensely. It’ll work, assuming your diet’s in order.

For fat loss, diet is the most important thing.

Amazing Fact #5:…aww i didn’t have anything, but everyone was doing it…i just wanted to be liked :frowning:

Your friends are clueless.

You are almost clueless.

Your saving grace is this statement you made:

“Personally I am sick of the no direction, made up 30 minutes before going workouts.”

So at least you KNOW you are clueless, which is a good start.

Let’s get a few things straight:

  1. as long as you increase the weight, eat enough and sleep enough, as a BEGINNER, you will improve

  2. hardly any beginners do all 3 of the above

  3. it does not matter jack shit what routine you do. A magic routine won’t make any fu34ing difference if you are a beginner. ANYTHING you do that involves overload, IF AND ONLY IF YOU EAT AND REST AS WELL, will get results.

  4. overload means adding weight to the bar and lifting it

Need to gain muscle? I bet you don’t eat enough.

Need to lose fat? ten bucks says you eat too much especially crap

Eating lots and not gaining and working out like a maniac until you puke? Ten bucks says you DON’T eat enough, and as well, you don’t rest enough, and workout too often, and are neurotic. And are obsessed with every new routine devised.

Here is my advice:

  • pick 4 main compound exercises and spread them out over the entire week and lock them in rigid, and add weight to those exercises every time you do them, and do them first in the workout. but only do 2 at most per workout. you must lock them in so you can measure your progress, THIS is what is really annoying you - no measure of progress.

  • stuff around as much as you want with fancy exercises or goofing off after that

  • drink your surge or whatever after the 2 big exercises

  • when you leave the gym go with your friends and eat some huge meal like roast chicken and chips. when I was a kid I would go with my mate after gym and eat a whole chicken and a large chips and a coke and also, some kind of huge cream bun or cake. NICE! Not a leg of chicken, not a wing, not a chicken burger, not soy-chicken, not skinless chicken and not a frikkin quail - a family sized fully stuffed chicken.

EAT THE BIRD - DON’T EAT LIKE A BIRD.

no doubt you won’t do any of that but will do some WSKSOP or something.