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Ideal Amount of Sleep for Optimal Recovery/Muscle Growth?

CT,

How much sleep is needed in order to sustain lean muscle mass? This question is primarily in terms of nighttime rest since I don’t get a chance to take naps throughout the day.

8-10 is where it’s at. You need the deep sleep if I recall correctly, which you get from long periods of sleep. Correct me if I’m wrong.

[quote]Rocky2 wrote:
8-10 is where it’s at. You need the deep sleep if I recall correctly, which you get from long periods of sleep. Correct me if I’m wrong.[/quote]

Yep, correct. It’s only the amount of sleep, but the quality. The deeper the sleep, the better. The less often you wake up at night, the better too.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Rocky2 wrote:
8-10 is where it’s at. You need the deep sleep if I recall correctly, which you get from long periods of sleep. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Yep, correct. It’s NOT only the amount of sleep, but the quality. The deeper the sleep, the better. The less often you wake up at night, the better too.[/quote]

fixed ^^ :slight_smile:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Rocky2 wrote:
8-10 is where it’s at. You need the deep sleep if I recall correctly, which you get from long periods of sleep. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Yep, correct. It’s only the amount of sleep, but the quality. The deeper the sleep, the better. The less often you wake up at night, the better too.[/quote]

Is it true that high protein intake causes frequent urination? I have to get up 2-3 times to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Or maybe it’s not that complicated and it’s from the amount of water in protein shakes.

[quote]tomkade wrote:

Is it true that high protein intake causes frequent urination? I have to get up 2-3 times to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Or maybe it’s not that complicated and it’s from the amount of water in protein shakes.[/quote]
How much water are you drinking and how close to bed are you consuming it?

[quote]tomkade wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Rocky2 wrote:
8-10 is where it’s at. You need the deep sleep if I recall correctly, which you get from long periods of sleep. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Yep, correct. It’s only the amount of sleep, but the quality. The deeper the sleep, the better. The less often you wake up at night, the better too.

Is it true that high protein intake causes frequent urination? I have to get up 2-3 times to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Or maybe it’s not that complicated and it’s from the amount of water in protein shakes.[/quote]

Yeah higher protein diets should cause more frequent urination, it’s not just the extra water. I know that certain proteins are in the kidney (Na/K ATP-ase, Na-glucose transporter, Aqauporins) which are a integral to the re-absorption that occurs in the kidney, from the proximal tubule to blood vessel/capillaries near it.

Aquaporins particularly allow water to flow easily across the cell membrane, so I’m guessing the extra protein we take in means more aquaporins?

man I’m the same… I feel like an 80 year old, can’t spend one night without getting up to go take a leak…

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

Yeah higher protein diets should cause more frequent urination, it’s not just the extra water. I know that certain proteins are in the kidney (Na/K ATP-ase, Na-glucose transporter, Aqauporins) which are a integral to the re-absorption that occurs in the kidney, from the proximal tubule to blood vessel/capillaries near it.

Aquaporins particularly allow water to flow easily across the cell membrane, so I’m guessing the extra protein we take in means more aquaporins?
[/quote]

SHEESH!! I sure am glad I read this one! I’ve been wondering what the hell is going on with me. Over the last year I’ve notice that I’m taking more and more frequent leaks. And yeah it is effecting my sleep. Thought there was something seriously wrong with me.

The stuff in Z12 gets me through the night better despite a high protein diet. rest very deeply and less getting up to pee… unless I just don’t remember getting up :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I sleep throughout the night no problems, until I am taking creatine and it’s not because I drink anymore water either. That stuff just seems to makes me go more. lol

going to sleep now 2:20Am not a good sign

[quote]andrew_live wrote:
going to sleep now 2:20Am not a good sign[/quote]

Unless you plan on sleeping until noon. :stuck_out_tongue:

So taking naps in the day won’t help?

I drink alot of water throughout the day, but when I sleep I never wake up to use the bathroom. I just end up going before and really having to go after. Does this affect my “deep” sleep?

Though I no doubt think that sleep is very important, I believe that when we started putting numbers on it, such as the “get at least 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep a night”, it created more chaos than it did help. It’s a never ending cycle.

A person looks at the clock and sees that he has to be up in 8 hours. But he doesn’t get to sleep right away. An hour later, he looks at the clock and sees that if he falls asleep now, he’ll at least have 7 hours. He trys and still doesn’t. Then he starts panicking and has anxiety over the lack of sleep he’s going to get. The next night, he’s nervous, wondering if the same thing is going to happen tonight.

The same thing happens when waking up in the middle of the night. “Oh shit, I woke up! Now my sleep is disturbed and I won’t grow optimally!”

I know this sounds a bit extreme (well, not so much the first scenario, but the second might be). However, I was the exact same way not too long ago. When there was no recommended amount of sleep, people actually slept better. Now that we put a number on it, people flip out when they know they won’t reach that number.

I think a better recommendation would have been “sleep as much as you need to function properly the next day”. Sleep is different for everybody. Just as there are different nutrition and training approaches for every individual, so there is also different amounts of sleep.

[quote]forbes wrote:
Though I no doubt think that sleep is very important, I believe that when we started putting numbers on it, such as the “get at least 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep a night”, it created more chaos than it did help. It’s a never ending cycle.

A person looks at the clock and sees that he has to be up in 8 hours. But he doesn’t get to sleep right away. An hour later, he looks at the clock and sees that if he falls asleep now, he’ll at least have 7 hours. He trys and still doesn’t. Then he starts panicking and has anxiety over the lack of sleep he’s going to get. The next night, he’s nervous, wondering if the same thing is going to happen tonight.

The same thing happens when waking up in the middle of the night. “Oh shit, I woke up! Now my sleep is disturbed and I won’t grow optimally!”

I know this sounds a bit extreme (well, not so much the first scenario, but the second might be). However, I was the exact same way not too long ago. When there was no recommended amount of sleep, people actually slept better. Now that we put a number on it, people flip out when they know they won’t reach that number.

I think a better recommendation would have been “sleep as much as you need to function properly the next day”. Sleep is different for everybody. Just as there are different nutrition and training approaches for every individual, so there is also different amounts of sleep.[/quote]

I agree!!

[quote]Rocky2 wrote:
8-10 is where it’s at. You need the deep sleep if I recall correctly, which you get from long periods of sleep. Correct me if I’m wrong.[/quote]

Im pretty sure there are 4 stages of sleep and one of them is REM, during the night you cycle through these stages. The first stage is only experienced once at thats when you enter sleep.

Each of the cycles lasts about 90 minutes with each stage being around 13 minutes. Near the last 2 to 4 hours of an 8 hour sleep period your cycle only toggles between rem and I believe its stage 2. This means that REM last around 45 minutes instead of the short 13, near the beginning of the night.

Essentially what this means is if you sleep long enough you will have longer periods of deep sleep which will probably net you much better recovery than short naps.

But basically ya ,8 to 10 hrs wins

It all depends on the person. For me, if I get anything less than 9 hours of sleep, I feel as if I had 6 or 7 hours of sleep, even if I had 8 or even 8.5. It’s weird but I’ve definitely noticed this.

[quote]andrew_live wrote:
PB Andy wrote:

Yeah higher protein diets should cause more frequent urination, it’s not just the extra water. I know that certain proteins are in the kidney (Na/K ATP-ase, Na-glucose transporter, Aqauporins) which are a integral to the re-absorption that occurs in the kidney, from the proximal tubule to blood vessel/capillaries near it.

Aquaporins particularly allow water to flow easily across the cell membrane, so I’m guessing the extra protein we take in means more aquaporins?

SHEESH!! I sure am glad I read this one! I’ve been wondering what the hell is going on with me. Over the last year I’ve notice that I’m taking more and more frequent leaks. And yeah it is effecting my sleep. Thought there was something seriously wrong with me.

[/quote]

This situation sucks. I can somehow control it, but it’s like a catch 22. I read somewhere that cutting fluids 3 hrs before bed can help, but I was so thirsty I couldn’t sleep. Now I cut them 1 1/2 hrs before and I wake up to pee only once. But every night. It is the best compromise I could found, though. And yes, when I wake up next morning I down 1 l. of water (about 1/4) right away.

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

Yeah higher protein diets should cause more frequent urination, it’s not just the extra water. I know that certain proteins are in the kidney (Na/K ATP-ase, Na-glucose transporter, Aqauporins) which are a integral to the re-absorption that occurs in the kidney, from the proximal tubule to blood vessel/capillaries near it.

Aquaporins particularly allow water to flow easily across the cell membrane, so I’m guessing the extra protein we take in means more aquaporins?
[/quote]

I feel you may be overanalyzing, an unavoidable metabolite of a high protein intake - urea - is a diuretic.