T Nation

I Want to Start Using Gear

Hello everyone, I want to begin this by saying that while this post is in the beginners category that term is limited only to my “supplemental” use. I am 24 years old, 5’8 175lbs, I’ve been lifting since I was 16 and started using GNC/BB.com supplements at 19. I have an unfortunate genetic disposition of having small pecks biceps and lats. My hope was that with a few cycles I could reach a more “finished” look and boost my strength index. I’ve read a few of these forums and some of you veterans are quite harsh on the first time users or want to be first timers. I want anyone and everyone who reads this thread to know that I have done a decent amount of research but can’t get a good peg on where to start, youtube has a finite amount of knowledge and advice to give beginners. Any help is greatly appreciated.

having small pecs, biceps, and lats is not a genetic condition. It means you’re 5’8 175 lbs. You’re a small person. EVERYTHING is small.

If you have read a decent amount, you would know what a beginner cycle generally looks like. It’s really fucking simple, and there are countless examples of them on this forum. Literally hundreds. Dozens within the past year.

Propose a cycle, including AI and PCT, and we’ll tell you if you made mistakes.


As an interested observer, I’d say that they’re only harsh when it’s warranted. Such as…

…when people say they have done a “decent amount of research” but then admit they don’t know where to start. These statements are fundamentally at odds. If you had done a “decent” amount of research, you would have some idea where to start; part of the problem, no doubt, is that your definition of a “decent” amount of research is sorely lacking.

You want strangers on the internet to help you do drugs, but you’re also afraid they will be “quite harsh” towards you?


go fuck yourself. I’ll rip your soul out through your eyes and piss in the empty sockets.

Just kidding! Although you really should know how to put a first cycle together if you’ve been reading. We only get like ten billion first cycle threads every day…


came here for help not judgement thats why I made that comment. Not out of hope that it would save me from criticism.

First cycle use the minimum amount of gear to make good gains. Try 250 milligrams Sustanon a week for 10-12 weeks, depending on your genetics , training and diet should put on 10 to 15 pounds. Do the basics hard , the less you start out with the less you will need later do not start out on 3 or 4 things overkill, easier to guage quality of source with one thing , if you are on multiple drugs you can have two real products and two fake and still make gains. Pct then on next cycle go testosterone plus maybe dbol or equipoise.

I agree with strongmanjoe on starting out with 250mg per week. I think that test c and test e are a better test for beginners. I used 250mg of test c and I went from 158 @ 7% to 178 @ 9%. I stopped at 11 weeks because after week 9 I did not gain any more weight. I dropped 5lbs during and after pct but was able to maintain the other 15 lbs. My next two cycles were test only and I never did over 500mg per week. I use arimidex on every cycle and I taper it down through a 20mg tamoxifen pct for 4-6 weeks depending on how long the cycle was. Also hcg can help through cycle for a mor simple recovery.

seriously? 250mg/week? jesus christ.

The only way I would consider going THAT low is if he already has low T. Would you guys actually recommend that if his natural T level is at, say, 900? He hasn’t gotten a baseline yet, so he might be very high naturally, and it would be a shame to risk not recovering at his age for such a small cycle. Makes no sense to me. 250 is just barely over TRT.

OP, definitely get bloodwork done before even considering running a cycle.


Flip- I’d have to agree. (No offense to anybody) But having tried everything with Test from 100mg/wk to a gram/wk, If I was to go the cycle/PCT route, I’d only see it to be worth it at 500mg/wk minimum. I want to recommend even higher but I feel that’s moderate enough since he’s a first timer.

Would be a shame to shut down your natural production for hardly higher than TRT dose IMO. I did get gains at 250, but 750/wk is where my sweet spot is as far as very quick gains on test only.

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sustanon at 250 mg a week is prolly gonna suck for most guys, unless they’re low, like @flipcollar mentioned.

the long esters in sustanon make it kinda worthless at first, and a hassle to wait to come off of… (although, i think for TRT sustanon can be pretty solid, as if can allow the user to go with one shot/wk)

most guys are gonna be at the high range of normal with 200 mg of testosterone a week. 250 might be slightly better, but not that much better… (and obviously the ester stuff throws this off, as well)

if weight class was an issue, then i’d suggest 300-400 mg a week, and if not, more like 500-600 mg/wk.

We both post alot on forum, you got a lot good points, am just getting back into. My first cycle was 200test cypionate weekly, my bench went from 385 at 215 to 425 at a little under 240, i also eat more , trained more aggressively, i think it verys from person to person , saw on another post about a guy doing a dbol only cycle, which i did the next summer went from 242 to 265 bench hit 315x17,405x5, bench, squats 335x28, had some mex vet stuff, came 50ml x 25mg bottle, which i drank 1ml a day if i forgot a double up next day , when i had to go acedemy they searched us so i shot 3ml a day before i went. Back then getting gear was hard to get 90’s unless you were in the CLUB, back then i remember guys benching 500 plus. Saying they only took 200test, 200deca, and 25mg anadrol. I was talking to and old silver back who said that was bullshit , the big guys in my area were doing like 500mg test 500mg deca and 50 mg anadrol aday. Anyway im saying start out with effective dose let the traning and diet make gains,not drugs am 43 and have lifted weights for 31 years, not counting the two and a half years of weak trt gels etc. I ve been on a total of 6 years/ 12 cycles. Roughly not counting the prohormones which probably fucked up my endocrine system, which got me on trt.

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at 5 foot 8 175 there could be some metabolic or endocrine issue or we just don’t train right or eat Ritemaybe some blood work is in the order.

What’s funny is that would put him overweight to join the Army…

68 inches Maximum
17-20 YO 170 lbs
21-27 YO 174 lbs
28-39 YO 179 lbs
40+ YO 181 lbs

Army Weight Rules

I get it but for a guy who has been trying to gain weight, lifting hard, and spends shitton money at gnc, training during the highest gh and test levels he will have natural maybe something needed, weight charts are stupid, i was in fat boy program only one guy could beat me at pt , a 5,9 140 wrestler me 6,1 210.

To make matters worse sustanon 250 is 40% testosterone decanoate which is the slowest injectable ester out right now unless I’m mistaken.

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what does the Army BMI chart have to do with anything?

Just an observation. Same as I never meet the BMI index of 25 for being “healthy” with work’s health program.

I like a lot of what you said here. One of the main points being that a lot of guys like about the amount of gear they’re on, saying they do less than they really do. I think that happened a lot more in past decades, as there is a lot more info made public in the internet age.

And I also agree with the idea of getting the most out of the least amount of drugs in general. I think there is a baseline threshold for how much should be taken for the cycle to be ‘worth it’, and your baseline just happens to be lower than mine. Cyco spelled out my thoughts on this very well. My own first cycle was 750/week, with a dbol kickstart. It’s something I’ll readily recommend to others, but 500 is just fine too. I guess my absolute low end would be 400 for a first cycle. Anything below that, in my opinion, will not yield enough gains to be able to get through PCT without basically putting you back very close to where you were before you ran the cycle.