T Nation

I Want to Start Cutting

Bodybuilding
#1 
I'm getting kind of round around the waist so I want to start cutting. I'm still pretty new at all this so I think I might be able to cut and gain muscle which is what I would prefer.

Do you have any recomendations for me?

I’m 5’8" 160 lb. male at age 24

I think my resting metabolic rate is 1761. Does that sound right? How can I know this for sure?

Do I keep my diet at this level in order to cut?

So far I’ve been trying to start a habbit of a very clean diet.

My fat intake has been around 55 - 90g
My carbs have been around 200-300g
my protein has been around 170-180g
and my calories have been around 2400-2900 each day

so I have a balance of about 30/35/35 (fat/carbs/protein) for about a week so far

What kind of foods do you all eat when cutting?

Do you stay way from peanut butter and almonds or anything else you normally eat when bulking?

#2

I have not tips except maybe instead of cutting you can slow down your bulk and minimize fat gain while putting on some muscle.

#3

[quote]massarmor wrote:
I’m getting kind of round around the waist so I want to start cutting. I’m still pretty new at all this so I think I might be able to cut and gain muscle which is what I would prefer.

Do you have any recomendations for me?

I’m 5’8" 160 lb. male at age 24

I think my resting metabolic rate is 1761. Does that sound right? How can I know this for sure?

Do I keep my diet at this level in order to cut?

So far I’ve been trying to start a habbit of a very clean diet.

My fat intake has been around 55 - 90g
My carbs have been around 200-300g
my protein has been around 170-180g
and my calories have been around 2400-2900 each day

so I have a balance of about 30/35/35 (fat/carbs/protein) for about a week so far

What kind of foods do you all eat when cutting?

Do you stay way from peanut butter and almonds or anything else you normally eat when bulking?[/quote]

I just mentioned this in another thread. You can’t build muscle while cutting. You consume calories to gain, maintain or lose. You can’t do two at the same time.

Are you sure you’re calculating your calories properly? They seem too low for you to be getting fat, unless you aren’t eating the proper foods and aren’t committing yourself at the gym.

Recalculate your calories and cut back by 500. See what happens. If your muscles are growing and you maintain comparable BF, your new bulk will over shadow your fat eventually.

At 160lb you probably don’t have much fat anyway and you shouldn’t even comprehend the word “cutting”, unless it’s in reference making food into bite-size pieces.

#4

I think you should read take a look around the site. There is atleast one of these threads that pop up every couple days if not everyday. They are all responded to the same way too. Either way read the Are you a beginner thread at the top of thise forum.

#5

I recommend a Spyderco pocket knife w/ serrated blade. It cuts nicely.

Go read “The Anti Skinny-Fat Manifesto”.

#6

[quote]MaloVerde wrote:

I just mentioned this in another thread. You can’t build muscle while cutting. You consume calories to gain, maintain or lose. You can’t do two at the same time.
[/quote]
Not entirely true. If he’s new to this, then he probably can add muscle while losing BF. He could also benefit simply by making better food choices, and pushing himself a little harder in the gym.[quote]

Are you sure you’re calculating your calories properly? They seem too low for you to be getting fat, unless you aren’t eating the proper foods and aren’t committing yourself at the gym.
[/quote]
He’s only been eating this way for one week, who knows what he was eating before.

Agreed.

Heheh.

#7

I’ve been reading the articles and they have been very helpful. I’m still going through them. I’ve been reading other websites also. I used to weigh 135, and now I’m 160 and I’m gaining muscle and fat. I want to get rid of the fat around my waist.

almostabb - so just lessening the fat and bringing down the calories a little will get rid of that fat?

MaloVerde - thanks, I’ll try that as soon as I recacluate my calories. Do you have any links for that?

I just read “the anti-skinny fat manifesto.” Great article, thanks. I looked all over google and I don’t know what a “hypocaloric state” is. Is that eating below the total metabolic rate with high protien consumption?
I’m already eating those foods mentioned in the article, rarely eating anything else, so should I just keep doing that and then the fat around my waist will slowly go away? What about cardio?

Is there a article here that talks about calculating calories? I’ve read others but I must have done it wrong. When I first calculated, my resting metabolic rate was 2769 and my total metabolic rate was 4155 but people were telling me that was too high. In order to go above maintenance I figured 5155 would it. I was never getting that though.

Also, is there a article explaining the different body types better? I think I may be in between a mesomorph and a endomorph but I’m not sure. I want to know exactly.

Modi - ya, I read that some people have experienced this. If you are new at bodybuilding, there is a possiblity to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time but it’s almost impossible for someone who has been training for a while.

#8

[quote]massarmor wrote:
almostabb - so just lessening the fat and bringing down the calories a little will get rid of that fat?
[/quote]

No keep your fats in there. Experiment with lowering the carbs a bit. Also do you take fish oil?

#9

[quote]massarmor wrote:
MaloVerde - thanks, I’ll try that as soon as I recacluate my calories. Do you have any links for that?
[/quote]

Flip the package over and viola! There is the breakdown of nutrients, calories, fats, etc… If you are looking for the breakdown for natural foods, try google. Don’t ask to be spoon fed on this. (Pun intended)

Also, please provide me the link to the article that stated you can burn fat and gain lean muscle mass. I would like to read that. And it better not be the Carbolin 19 supplement article either.

Good luck!

#10

almostabb - no, i’ve never taken fish oil. So it’s the carbs that make you fat?

What about cardio? How much cardio should I do?

MaloVerde - I’m talking about correctly caculating my daily needs for caloric intake. I need to know how much to count. I’ve already been keeping track of my diet and my percentages of fats/carbs/protein.

On this site, it says it right in the bigginers introduction forum:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=640350

I’ve read about that at other places too

#11

[quote]massarmor wrote:
almostabb - no, i’ve never taken fish oil. So it’s the carbs that make you fat?

What about cardio? How much cardio should I do?

MaloVerde - I’m talking about correctly caculating my daily needs for caloric intake. I need to know how much to count. I’ve already been keeping track of my diet and my percentages of fats/carbs/protein.

On this site, it says it right in the bigginers introduction forum:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=640350

I’ve read about that at other places too[/quote]

First, that’s a post, not an article. Everyone has an opinion. My opinion is that at your small size you could lose fat and appear to have bigger muscles, but in reality you are only more defined.

I don’t understand how someone with so many questions about a certain topic can give advice to someone else about the same topic. For example Caloric Intake.

Next, I don’t understand why you are so concerned with making something that’s so easy, so hard.

At 160lbs do you really need to know the exact calories you take in? You know what you eat. Stop eating something. Pretty easy.

I’ll stop bugging you now.

Take it easy.

#12

What’s your Body Fat%?

Personally I don’t see any harm in cutting to get visible abs if you’re a short 5’8’’ and 160. If you’re adding strength while loosing fat then great.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

There’s a T-Nation article against all out bulking. Sure you need cholesterol to turn the protein you ingest into muscle but if you’re not at 3-4% bodyfat a lack of mass building fat really shouldn’t be a concern. Pro Bodybuilders even retain their six-packs during bulking periods.

#13

[quote]massarmor wrote:
almostabb - no, i’ve never taken fish oil. So it’s the carbs that make you fat?

What about cardio? How much cardio should I do?

MaloVerde - I’m talking about correctly caculating my daily needs for caloric intake. I need to know how much to count. I’ve already been keeping track of my diet and my percentages of fats/carbs/protein.

On this site, it says it right in the bigginers introduction forum:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=640350

I’ve read about that at other places too[/quote]

First off, it’s not carbs alone that make you fat. Too much of anything can get you fat. Some people respond better to lowering carbs rather than fat however. Also, good dietary fats contribute to higher testosterone, which is a good thing for gaining muscle and losing fat, and strength, and everything else in general

Second, I do believe it is possible to both lose a marginal amount of fat while gaining a marginal amount of muscle. [b]For the absolute, rank beginner newbie.[/b] However, I don’t know why you would possibly want to waste the best, most responsive time in your training life to gaining muscle and strength(the very beginning) by cutting. Muscle and strength gains will never come any faster, consistantly, than they do as a newb.

Third, “hypo-” means less than, under, etc. So “hypocaloric” means you’re eating less calories than you burn. Opposite of “hypercaloric”. Essentially you were correct about that.

Fourth, you’ll know you are at maintenance calorie intake by logging everything you eat for a couple weeks and weighing yourself. If you haven’t lost any weight, you are at maintenance calorie levels. Make sure you weigh yourself under the same conditions every time (same clothes, empty stomach, empty bowels, pre workout or in the morning before breakfast)

#14

Oh, and “resting metabolic rate” is not what you should be looking at. It is, roughly speaking, what your body mass will burn on its own if you didn’t do any activity at all in a day (lie vegetable-like on a couch). It doesn’t take into account activity levels, training/workouts, stress, or anything else.

If you want to keep body fat gain to a minimum, then I would do the following before I would consider cutting–1) add a couple days of cardio a week 2) eat clean, high fiber, high nutrient, high protein meals.

Good job on the 25lb gain. Now go get another 20lb or so. And keep reading articles.

#15

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
What’s your Body Fat%?

Personally I don’t see any harm in cutting to get visible abs if you’re a short 5’8’’ and 160. If you’re adding strength while loosing fat then great.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

There’s a T-Nation article against all out bulking. Sure you need cholesterol to turn the protein you ingest into muscle but if you’re not at 3-4% bodyfat a lack of mass building fat really shouldn’t be a concern. Pro Bodybuilders even retain their six-packs during bulking periods. [/quote]

Nice choice of articles FightingScott, I guess Massarmour missed that one.

Let me pull a quote from there for him.

“For a natural trainee, it’s virtually impossible to lose a significant amount of fat while gaining muscle. That’s one thing you can be sure of: when you’re cutting calories to lose fat, you won’t add muscle.”

Aragon, good posts from you also.

Ok, now I’ll stop bugging him.

#16

Lets not make this super-technical but it’s possible to gain muscle and loose fat at the same time.

Pretend we have a test subject named Carl. Carl takes in 3500 calories a day, is 6 feet tall, 190 pounds, and has a BF of 35%. The majority of his calories are from soda, raw cookie dough, and low grade restaurant/cafeteria food. His day to day physical activity is centered around 1 hour of low intensity cardio performed 4 times a week along with 5 hours of World of Warcraft 7 times a week. His Max Deadlift is 225.

Carl makes a lifestyle change. Carl buys a log cabin in the wilderness and pawns his computer for a squat rack. He switches to a calorie intake of 3000 a day derived from large quantities of salmon and trout, wild nuts, and big heaping servings of oatmeal and cornbread he bakes all by himself. Carl, after 24 months, weighs 165. He does about 2 hours of interval training 6 days a week and lifts twice a week. His deadlift is up to 405 and his bf % is 11.

This seems possible to me. I mainly kept writing it because once I hit the bit about moving into the woods I couldn’t stop. I’m just trying to say that if you’re already eating enough calories to make you fat, then you’re consuming a calorie surplus large enough to build muscle with.

And I’m not saying that the guy who started this post is fat like the imaginary dude Carl. Carl is just an example.

#17

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Lets not make this super-technical but it’s possible to gain muscle and loose fat at the same time.

Pretend we have a test subject named Carl. Carl takes in 3500 calories a day, is 6 feet tall, 190 pounds, and has a BF of 35%. The majority of his calories are from soda, raw cookie dough, and low grade restaurant/cafeteria food. His day to day physical activity is centered around 1 hour of low intensity cardio performed 4 times a week along with 5 hours of World of Warcraft 7 times a week. His Max Deadlift is 225.

Carl makes a lifestyle change. Carl buys a log cabin in the wilderness and pawns his computer for a squat rack. He switches to a calorie intake of 3000 a day derived from large quantities of salmon and trout, wild nuts, and big heaping servings of oatmeal and cornbread he bakes all by himself. Carl, after 24 months, weighs 165. He does about 2 hours of interval training 6 days a week and lifts twice a week. His deadlift is up to 405 and his bf % is 11.

This seems possible to me. I mainly kept writing it because once I hit the bit about moving into the woods I couldn’t stop. I’m just trying to say that if you’re already eating enough calories to make you fat, then you’re consuming a calorie surplus large enough to build muscle with.

And I’m not saying that the guy who started this post is fat like the imaginary dude Carl. Carl is just an example. [/quote]

Your friend Carl represents a gain in strength, not in muscle mass. Those are two different things and gains in strength weren’t part of the discussion. It is possible to gain strength without gaining size.

Try reading the very article you posted and stop making up imaginary friends.

Hey maybe I’m wrong who knows, who cares?

Again, thanks for posting the article, you helped clarify some things for Mr. Massarmor.

#18

I don’t want to seem like I’m yelling this over the internet like a stuck up jerk but it’s pretty much impossible to gain strength without muscle.

#19

Well…

When i started training I went from 130lbs at 13% bf to 160(or so, cant remember the exact number) and my bf was around 9%. Gained some fat from 160 to 180s now im sitting at 10-12%

So, regardless of science no one can tell me this didnt happen. Furthermore I wasn’t even concerned about how I ate, I was just eating tons of clean foods.

Let hell break loose =P

#20

[quote]almostabb wrote:
Well…

When i started training I went from 130lbs at 13% bf to 160(or so, cant remember the exact number) and my bf was around 9%. Gained some fat from 160 to 180s now im sitting at 10-12%

So, regardless of science no one can tell me this didnt happen. Furthermore I wasn’t even concerned about how I ate, I was just eating tons of clean foods.

Let hell break loose =P[/quote]

I agree with this, to a certain extent and in all honestly you can’t say well “So and so did XYZ and thats what I’m going to do.” The thing about trying to make gains in strength and especially in bodymass its all about applying the information to yourself.

Just because something worked exactly this way for me, doesn’t mean its going to work the exact same way for someone else. You can take peoples advice but you have to let your own progress be the judge and adjust from there.

Now with that being said and this may seem like kind of a contradiction your over thinking this. At 160lbs(unless your 5’3) you should be eating lots of clean food and not worrying about the small stuff. Eat lots of nutrient dense calories. Lift hard and heavy in the gym and you’ll get progress. After almost 4 years of reading these message boards it still suprises me how many people can’t seem to get this.

I’ve been training seriously for 6 years and I still consider myself a newbie, but if there is one thing that I’ve learned from true lifting vets(10 years plus with no layoffs) on this site and in the gym its not to make things so complicated.

I myself don’t count every calorie I take in. I have a ball park range, when bulking I take in roughly 5000+ calories a day of mostly clean food(not chicken breasts and spinach for every meal but still whole grains, lean protein, lots of fruits and veggies and healthy fats).

When trying to cut I eat roughly the same thing I just cut back on food, maybe cut down how many carbs I’m eating and do a little more cardio…Its worked for me thus far.6’1 260lbs and still gaining…