Whopper-all you gotta do is a jump spinning back kick and hit the arm with the knife. I sw it in a movie once…
Actually, your post was dead on. Since I started studying knife fighting, I have realized the same thing.
I notice that the guy who started this thread has not replied to any of our queries. WTF?
Oh well here’s my two cents.
I agree that the Octagon is a good testing environment but they still have rules so I’d say it’s still not the ultimate test.
I personally take Jeet Kune Do and our school is also part of the Joe Lewis Karate System. I’ve found that what I was taught was superior to Marine Corps LINE training(which is being replaced thank God) and extremely effective when my 5’10 175 pound behind decided to bounce as a side job. Drunks are easy to choke unconscious but strikes don’t do as much unless you are pin point accurate(and who’s going to be pinpoint accurate when some joker’s swinging a bar stool at you.) I’m glad the JKD system incorporates all the ranges of fighting and guess what it’s what the SEALS learn. They won’t say so, but aside from that ridiculous SCARS crap if you look at Frank Cucci’s tapes you see that he’s doing the same things I do in my JKD classes(muay thai, boxing, grappling, Jun Fan kung fu and kali)
As far as boxing encouraging you to take punches rather than parry that’s not completely true. Yes you have some idiots who try to prove they’re tougher than you but actually boxing as practiced by old time greats like Joe Louis, Sugar Ray Robinson, Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano etc has trapping similar to wing chun. There’s a great deal of parrying and it’s very fluid but boxers understand that sometimes someone is going to get through your defense so they train to be able to take impact.
As far as Joe Lewis, I agree he wouldn’t fare well in the ring due to cuts but since the discussion was about being unbeatable on the streets I maintain that he’s unstoppable. Joe’s grappling skills, power and timing are still unreal. His speed is outstanding. I’ve seen him spar personally and he plays with the people he’s going with talking to them and doing whatever he pleases. My instructor has trained with Ken Shamrock, Benny Urquidez, Bas Rutten and others and they ALL say Joe is the man.
I don’t want this forum to turn into another martial arts back biting session but I’m glad we are discussing combat arts in this thread and the one below.
Stay safe.
Deadly is a state of mind dude. Basic fighting skill + conditioning + Killer instinct will make you deadly, not some particular discipline of fighting.
John, Kinda depressing isn’t it? All the time you spend practicing all these neat moves…and when it comes down to it…your dog meat…lol. But I will keep the back turning spinning hook kick in mind…lol In all reality, you got ONE shot if you create enough defensive space, but I went to a seminar that addressed knife fighting, and he showed us that even with the guy 10 feet away, a hyped up adrenilized guy can shoot that gap DAMN fast, and you really only have ONE shot at it…and still not a very good one at that…seminars like that really sober you up fast sometimes…lol! I guess we need to live in a movie world, where the guy comes in real slow, and waves the knife around for a while first before stabbing you…lol. You know what…walking around with a lift cable attached to my back at all times would help also…then I could do all those great movie moves like jumping 25 feet in the air and roundhouse kicking 10 guys at once with one kick, before floating over them and landing gently right next to the pretty girl. Face it…reality sucks!! LMAO!
If you really want to be deadly go purchase a pistol. For what its worth I have never met ANYONE who was really a tough son of a bitch that worried about being a tough son of a bitch. Does that make sense? People who are truly powerful don’t care what others think or advertise how deadly they are (or ask stupid questions about “what the deadliest martial art is”). Insecurity is something you must deal with on your own.
Anybody know if those Gracie Ju-Jitsu schools are any good?
have you tried drunken alligator wrestling? what about bullet train wrestling? I’ve heard these could be deadly. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO HURT SOMEONE? Self defense is one thing, but you sound like the guy who will be attacking, not defending himself. You sound like an in the closet repressed tennage homosexual. Seek counseling. Good luck!
Funny you ask bolo - you share a nickname with a very good BJJ instructor named Michael Jen. Check out The Underground Forum sometime. BJJ is the shit for groundwork - can’t be beat. Freestyle wrestling is the shit for takedowns/avoiding takedowns. Boxing/kickboxing/mauy tai are the shit for stand up fighting. Each fight has the potential to progresses through these three stages - standup/clinch or takedown/groundwork.
I believe that groundwork is the most important SINGLE one to train in. Ever seen a pure boxer win a No Holds Barred match? nope - but you may have seen Vitor Belfort (very good striker) kick someone’s ass in ufc/pride - with strikes and follow up with good ground work if necessary. Dan Severn, a pure wrestler had a hard time finishing his opponents. NO stand up fighter has ever had much success in NHB besides Tank in the early days. However, pure grapplers such as Royce Gracie had a great deal of success, especially early on when everyone was coming in with all kinds of bullshit stand up techniques that don’t mean shit once you get to the ground. So, in summation, if you want to be a bad ass fighter - train in all types you can, and emphasize strong groundwork. Watch a Pride fight - today’s are great - they combine all of these elements.
NS I do agree with you, but take it easy on Watts, he is usually a good poster. Watts, NS is right, as you get more and more proficient, you get less and less willing to use it…especially when you realize the damage you can do…you get a very quiet confidence. The biggest problem is these 18 year old black belts who think they can be Bruce Lee. Our school started a great program where during black belt promotion, our instructor has 5 of us get into “redman” gear (padded body armor) He then gives each black belt hopeful a choice…they can try to talk their way out of the situation, run for the door, and if they make it they pass…or fight. The older (and much wiser ones) always run from the 5 of us or try to talk themselves out of the situation. The youngins almost ALWAYS try to fight…and we honestly usually beat them to the point of almost unconsciousness. He then steps in, and explains that, even tho they will be black belts, in a situation like they just experienced, on the street…they will lose 99.99% of the time (we have yet to have one guy win or even get close, and we dont use our martial arts…we use plain old punching, pushing, and kicking…nothing fancy or “martial arts” based in any way) It kinda opens their eyes for them, and takes away some of that “bad ass” attitude. (and I have to admit…the cocky ones…we do tend to beat up even worse than the other ones…lol!) Watts bro…whatever style you go with, you will learn…the more damage you know how to inflict…the more you avoid confrontations…I have been in a few tense situations in the last six months, and have yet to have to resort to physical means, and thats how I prefer it…I would always prefer to talk my way out of it. There is a GREAT program called EZ Self Defense that is being taught around the country right now…teaches you all about body space, and how to talk yourself out of a confrontation, and how to know when it is too late to talk your way out…after all, he who strikes first, usually wins…so you gotta know when the time has come to stop talking and start splattering!
phenom.
i am for sure not one of those martial arts back biters. for i don’t consider myself a martial artist. i got into kickboxing and boxing to compete,for the sport. i could give a rats ass about self defence and spiritual balance.
i don’t know how good joe lewis is in street situations, i was only speaking about joe’s forte and his biggest claim to fame “full contact”.
i don’t know what you meant about the cuts but i was just saying that todays fighters are just better. but he was a good prototype.
If you want tough try judo and jiu jitsu. I study judo with some jiu jitsu throw in. If you want to take the art of whoopass to a brutal and deadly level study Kodokan judo and kodenkan jiu jitsu. The art of grappling, strikes, kicks,throws,and joint locks.
The conditioning alone will kick most folks asses, that includes a lot of t-men. All this weight lifting won’t do you damn bit of good once the fight hits the ground. When in doubt choke em out!
You would have to actually throw your enemy, opponent, whatever then apply a wrist lock, arm or leg bar to point of breaking it to appreciate what I’m saying. This is submission fighting at it’s best.
Find yourself a good judo or jiu jitsu dojo be patient because they don’t just hand out black belts in either discipine. It takes a lot of years and a lot of fights to achieve shodan
After reading all the posts on this subject, especially the last one I’ve gotta say I really agree with the latest one, Jujutsu is just such an effective style as it uses all ranges, not just one or two. BJJ is great but ground fighting is not the way to go in a real situation. I mean really, has anyone ever seen a fight that was one on one? I haven’t since primary school. Ground fighting just won’t work against multiple opponents, and if you’re a T-man, most don’t have the courage to try it on by themselves, they get their friends to help. You need options, you have to be able to strike to close the gap and then break something so you can quickly move on to the next opponent. The thing about jujutsu is that it takes so damn long too learn, noone wants to hear that it’s gonna take 10 yrs to be any good. Was it watts who said that against multiples you should be wearing you’re running shoes? So true, fighting is just too dangerous even if you win. Fucking lawyers! You can lose everything.
Dude whatever - try going one on one with a good BJJ person, you’ll see what it’s all about. If you have no grappling experience a similar weight/athletic ability white belt will hand you your ass and an arm bar as well. True, lots of fights can’t go to the ground, but try using judo (all about somewhat impractical takedowns - some need gi) in confined quarters - lots of time won’t work. So, there is no real effective way to fight 3 people other than to intimidate the other two by getting a good double leg on the first and slamming his ass head first onto the floor. You can KO on the takedown ala Frank Shamrock. So, in conclusion, if the three people are ABSOLUTLEY going to fight you you’re pretty much screwed, two you might be able to manage if you’re good, one you can own him - with jiujitsu. I’d go through everything again but if you read my previous post on this topic it’s a little clearer and you might see my point. If you don’t believe me - go spar a similar weight/athletic ability jiujitsu white belt and see how well you do (if you know nothing).
well maybe we should start taking pro wrestling classes.
sakuraba was a pro wrestler and he’s spanked every gracie he’s fought, and rickson won’t fight him.
I just want to comment on a couple of things without getting into all the my dad (style ) can kick your dad’s ass stuff.
I think the big issue with watts is in his statement that he doesn’t mention his belt because he doesn’t respect it. Your belt is YOUR belt, if you don’t respect the effort, time and blood you put into it, you have no one to blame but yourself. And the next school isn’t going to change that.
I’ve been in and out of several schools in my travels and each one had its share of “bad asses” (read wanna be punks), true warriors, and half assed efforts. The difference is in what YOU put into it.
Find the greatest fighter in the world in whatever style you want. IF he’s a good teacher you will have the opportunity to learn some great skills, but it doesn’t mean you will. Don’t practice, don’t integrate, don’t comprehend, don’t have the heart and spirit, you won’t get anymore than you’ve already gotten.
By the way, Joe Lewis is teaching karate and coaching kick boxers in NC. He came and did a seminar at my previous dojo in TN and is still in great fighting shape, go see for yourself if he has anything to offer.
Hardcore, eh? I would recommend getting either into BJJ as some of your respondents suggest, or ROSS/Sambo, or ‘Catch-as-catch-can’ wrestling as currently taught by people like Matt Furey. The good aspect of Catch wrestling is that you can really subdue someone with a painful submission hold without actually hurting them - always a good thing when the authorities come calling later. ‘Deadliness’ is over-rated…kill someone, or even main them, and you have to live with it for the rest of your life. Unless you want to become a walking weapon with no ability to relate to your family, friends, and other ‘civilians’, I’d concentrate on one of the three I mentioned…they will get you in great shape, they will teach you to absorb punishment without fearing it, and they may change your life for the better in the process. Good luck!