T Nation

I Want To Be a Deadly Mo Fo

Brazailian Ju Juitsu!
RJ

Try full contact Kyokushinkai Karate. It’s known as on of the most brutal styles in the world.

Muay Tahi is great but it isn’t taught as a whole outside Thailand, same goes for other far-eastern styles. For something really hardcore try one of those backstreet boxing gyms. (You’ll likely get a welcome beating so be prepared.)

eskrima, kali, and arnis (filipino martial arts) are pretty tough if you plan on having sticks and daggers with you where ever you go. but my favorite filipino martial art is balisong. it centers on the balisong (duh!), which is also known as a butterfly knife. it’s been called one of the deadliest martial arts. look up balisong.com for more info. but then again it’s still considered a weapon so it’s not practical to carry around everywhere. if you can’t carry around sticks, daggers, or balisongs, your best weapons are your elbows, knees, fists, and feet. That’s why i think Muay Thai is the baddest ass striking martial art there is. But then you ask, what about grappling? There’s another type of kickboxing called San Shou. Technically it is Chinese Kung Fu Kickboxing. It’s very similar to muay thai but there are NO elbows and NO knees, BUT any freestyle or greco-roman takedowns are allowed. It’s not true grappling but you get to slam people as well as strike. For straight grappling there’s no doubt Gracie Brazilian Ju-Jitsu is the best. So if you have all the time in the world and want to be the deadlist mofo, learn how to use a balisong, master muay thai and san shou, and take it to the ground with gracie ju-jitsu. but dang, what’s with the hostility? were you bullied around as a nerdy kid or something and found t-mag and got freakin buff and now soon to be dangerous? i know i was :slight_smile:

Watts bro, I always respect your posts so I will give you the skinny…it doesn’t matter WHAT style…just like there are hardcore gyms and foo-foo gyms, the same holds for martial arts classes. The biggest problem with finding a good hardcore martial arts class is that THEY ARE IN IT TO MAKE MONEY! Yes, martial arts instructors have to eat, just like us T-men do, and a truely hardcore martial arts school will attract perhaps 10 to 30 hardcore students…(I belonged to one, every sparring class someone ended up going to the hospital!) Unfortunatly, if they soften up and become a family martial arts school, they can have up to 500 students…and be living VERY well. So it becomes simple economics…just like if you were a MA school owner…ya gotta pay your bills! Your best bet is to check out various schools of various styles, and see where you fit in best. A second option is if you look in your classified section of your paper, you will often find instructors who teach 2 to 5 students from their home…and are very hardcore. (Some are major whack jobs also…so watch out!) It was from an ex-Navy Seal that I learned what he called combat karate…I learned under him for a few years from his home…he didn’t do belt ranking systems, but when he was done with you…you were quite deadly. To be very honest with you tho, I found what he taught me to be rather useless UNLESS I end up in a life or death situation. He believed in the TOTAL system of self defense…which meant Take Out To Avoid Legalities…in other words, a guy trys to mug you…kill him so he can’t come back and sue you later. Needless to say Watts, what he taught isn’t exactly what you want to use in a bar fight! I now study in a good TKD school which is a happy medium…he has classes with the average joes (including your housewives) and what he calls his “boot camp classes” so you have a choice, if you want the crap kicked out of you, you attend the boot camp classes, and guys like me make wallpaper out of you…lol If you want to take it easy that week, you go to the regular classes.
Good luck bro!

I would definatley try boxing for the striking skills. Tea Kwon Do has been watered down into a sport and is more concerned about tapping a person for a point that knocking someone out. Jeet Kune Do is also and excelent martial art and often has Wing Chun as its basis for parrying punches. Wing Chun is really bad as far as their stance and maneuverability are concerned. A good grappler could grab one of those guys in a second. Boxing is better as far as maneuverability, but often seems to teach people to just take a punch, or try to dodge it instead of parrying it. Since you’ve done a ton of wrestling try taking some jiu-jitsu/judo courses, so that you break the habit of turning your back on your opponent like most wrestlers do(thats a surefire way to get your ass choked). Also get used to fighting on your back which most wrestlers avoid. Wrestlers definatley have better take-downs than most other forms of grappeling but I think their holds are pretty mild considering that they don’t want you breaking anything in a college wrestling match. Judo has good takedowns but they relies on grabbing their opponents GI too much. The meanest guys I’ve seen fight are those that seem to just go around to different dojos just to spar. They never go to one place too often and therefore don’t ever really pay for classes, they just spar all the time. It is good to latch on to one or two disciplines for a year or so, before you branch out. Try as much stuff as you can, because each style has and advantage and disadvantage. If I had to choose the most brutal all-around style it would be Jeet Kune Do, it has a good mix of everything, and the guys I’ve seen practice it for a long time are SCARY. Oh yeah, and like you’ve seen, NEVER look at a person’s belt as a reflection of their skill, belts are almost always bullshit.

Keen situational awareness


Concealed weapons permit


Glock 20 (10 mm)


Lots of instruction


Damn good lawyer

Do any of you guys find that practicing your boxing/martial arts gets in the way of your training? Any loss in your progression of strength? How do you minimize the impact on your strength training?

After reading several of the other posts, I have to change what I said. For the best experience, find the best teacher in your area, no matter what discipline that turns out to be. Don’t limit yourself by the fighting style. Go by the teacher you are most comfortable with and the one you believe is the most knowledgable.

Watts…another thing, if your looking for street fighting ability, as much as the grapplers here don’t want to hear it, one of the arms of the military…I think marines did a big study on street fighting, and found that #1 the person who strikes first wins 90% of all fights, #2 a trained fighter will end a fight with under 3 strikes, with death resulting in 28% of those cases from a first strike from a trained fighter (18% first strike kills from a boxer) and #3 if your opponent gets you on the ground, you have a 60% less chance of victory due to the fact that he will probably have friends with him, and most guys don’t approach while you are upright, but get very brave when your on the ground…and tend to surround you and kick you til ya stop moving! Also, as was stated, learn just a few counters for street situations. The same study found that untrained (unarmed) peoples first strike was 78% of the time a roundhouse (haymaker) punch 12% of the time a straight jab (which surprised me…it indicates some level of training to me…but I guess I am wrong) 5% of the time a grappling attempt 3% of the time a kick (to the groin or knees, etc) and 2% other. So what that tells you is that to be successful, you don’t need many counters…if you know your statistics, you have a damn good idea whats coming at you!

Thise statistics seem a little high for the chance of death. Given there would be hundreds of street fights in any one night, of course we can assume that only a small percentage involve trained fighters, there would be hundreds of deaths a month, from strikes only!

Sure the use of weapons are likely to cause fatality, but I have witnessed hundreds of fights (as a doorman) between guys I know who are well trained and the closest a person came to death was striking his head on the concrete after being knocked out. Never have I seen a death from a strike of any type unarmed.

Your priorities should be proficiency at 1. striking and 2. grappling IN THAT ORDER. Ideally you would do a shootfighting, trapfighting style OR 2 well focused styles, boxing or kickboxing (Id opt for the latter - if nothing else leg kicks are very effective) and BJJ, wresting or grappling. Id stay away from the fancy oriental styles - my experience is that you will make better progress in the styles I set out above. My feeling is that Whoppers statistics are right (although they dont properly highlight the combat limitations of grappling styles where there are multiple opponents or a group brawl situation) HENCE the priorities I set out.

If you are into street fighting and not the grace, mental training etc, go for boxing. A trained boxer has about 10 times punching power of an untrained person. By the way carrying a weapon for streetfighting is ridiculous as you will be guilty when sued whether you are righteous or not and worse yet may actually kill a person. A boxing buddy of mine actually broke the jaw of a guy and got to pay a huge compensation not to go in jail.

Okay…this is serious… AND as hardcore as they come if you want to be a “killer” (I DO NOT post these as a “joke”):

1)U.S. Special Forces: JFK Center for Psychological and Guerilla Warfare at Fort Bragg, N.C. is as Hardcore as they come. (Pre-requisites required, including Airborne Certification).

  1. U.S. Navy Special Warfare School (Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL). (Pre-requisites required).

  2. U.S. Marine Corps Special RECON School (Must be a U.S. Marine with certain Pre-requisites).

  3. French Foreign Legion (Do NOT have to be a French Citizen; I think the maximum age is about 36-40). Their Paratrooper and Special weapons school…also hardcore…

For the above (with the exception of the Legion), you have to be a U.S. citizen, go through the basics of the particular branch of service and meet certain requirements at that point). ALL hardcore…All teach you to be a “killing machine”…BUT they at the same time will make you part of an awesome team…

GOOD LUCK!

…you WILL become the “Deadliest Mo Fo” in town…

I think a few people kinda made mention of this, but I figured I’d say it again. As far as ground fighting (whatever style), you have to realize that you will be on the street, not in the “Octogon”. Having been a bouncer at a ton of bars, I would say that a majority of fights happen in/around bars. Now, what guy goes to a bar alone?? Of course he’s gonna have friends. So, when you immediately take someone into your guard or whatever, you’re gonna be getting kicked, stomped, hit etc. I’ve seen it happed plenty of times. Now, I’m all for being able to fight at all ranges, hence the kempo/jujitsu combo I do. But I would always get proficient at striking (whatever style you choose). Ahh, now I feel better. Also, another brutal art, and one of the first “mixed martial arts” styles is Kajukenbo. It was comprised of boxing, kenpo, judo, hapkido (I think) and karate. Maybe a couple other things too. Basically, the five founders, all masters in their own discipline, used to go to the Palomas “ghetto” in Hawaii and try a given technique by picking a fight. If they won, they kept the technique. At least you know the stuff is “field tested”! Instructors are probably hard to find, but it’s something to think about.

Why would you do a style for four years if you had no respect for it? Dude that’s four years you’ll never get back. If you want to do something that works, just watch some no holds barred matches. Notice the styles that the guys practise who win? Those could be good bets on being pretty effective I reckon. Stay away from weapons styles, they work excellently no doubt but if you’re planning on using your skills on people, weapons will just end you up in jail where you’ll wish that you’d worked harder on your empty hand stuff when ‘bubba’ decides that you’d make a good bitch. Remember, it’s not the style, it’s the people you train with that make it good or not. If you’re surrounded by idiots, what kind of bench mark is that to live up to?

I have to question your motives as well, as you want something “brutal”… Let me just say that you should make sure that you’re learning an art for the right reasons. Having said that… Kali is a great art and is the one I’m currently learning (cept I haven’t been to class in a month, ugh!), it teaches you both weapons and hand-to-hand techniques and is still used for self defense in the Phillipines, which isn’t exactly the friendliest place on Earth. Pencak Silat is an often overlooked but great art, teaches various weapons, hand-to-hand and grappling techniques (grappling techniques are taught to be used with a KNIFE, I might add). Muay Thai is a good, no bullshit, hand-to-hand art. Shoot is good to learn for grappling, incorporates the best aspects from Sambo, BJJ, etc. Southeastern martial arts are the way to go in my opinion. Look up Dan Inosanto if you’re interested.

Picacu…I honestly don’t know how the study qualified a “trained” person, but they did state those statistics. I do know for myself, back about 4 years ago, I had an idiot attack me, and my second strike was an elbow to the head…now I am a heavyweight, so perhaps that made a difference, but the man was hospitalized and in a coma for over a month. I was VERY fortunate in that there were plenty of witnesses who saw me trying to talk my way out of the situation, including an off duty police officer, when the guy attacked me, so I wasn’t charged, however the bum did try to sue me 5 months later, and I did have to get a damn lawyer, and go thru all that crap, because they guy suffered permanant damage. As far as killing him, the doctors during the lawsuit stated if I had struck half an inch closer to the temple…the guy would have died…so it can and does happen bro…but thats exactly why I try to avoid situations…there is nothing wrong with knowing how to be deadly…I just don’t suggest using it unless you really really have to…cause for me that lawsuit was 4 months of living HELL wondering if that bastard was gonna get everything I owned!! Fortunatly, he didn’t get a damn thing, but still…it cost me quite a bit in lawyer costs and sleepless nights!!

As far as knife fighting…I have been trained in it, and the one thing I found while sparring an equally trained knife fighter (with rubber knives) is that…your gonna die! Myself and my opponent were shocked to find out that despite all the neat counters and stuff we knew…we still were able to “stab” the hell out of each other when we went full speed and full power…so to me, in a street situation if I see a knife…I am hightailing it the other way if I have any way to get the hell out of there…so to all the fellow t-bros out there…all these counters are nice…but in a real situation…unless the guy is an idiot…if he has a knife…run like hell!! lol!