[quote]David Barr wrote:
BSims wrote:
“For those who want to understand no reason is needed. For those who don’t want to understand no reason is good enough.”
Do you have a source on this? I’m going to replace “understand” with “believe” (just to make it more reader-friendly) and spam it.
Thanks.[/quote]
I don’t know if she is original but:
"If you believe in something, no proof is required. If you don’t believe, no proof is sufficient.
Stacey Allen McGee, Founder of The ARC ~ Alternate Realities Center"
BTW, the protein debate is easy to resolve. Just agree with him and define a “meal” as 30 grams of protein. So you can eat a meal and then as soon as you finish it, start another one… Just digest it 30 grams at a time.
I hate these generalizations so often spouted by “OprahLogics” (people that get all their facts from the media, and unfortunately, believe it all). 8 8oz glasses, 30 grams of protein, blah blah. Are they talking about a 300lb male powerlifter or a 80lb female librarian? People come in different shapes and sizes and with greatly varying genetics. That’s a GOOD thing! Viva la Difference!
[quote]Tin Can wrote:
Just wanted to add. Yesterday I told him the following. I said if eating over 200 grams of protein is dangerous, how come the dip shits at health Canada or whatever the hell they’re called can’t say o.k. "We know for a fact (which they don’t and never will) that if you eat this much protein, that in this much time you will die. Until they proove that, they can do just that, eat shit and die. Think about it, if people smoke and drink for decades and don’t croak, and they live very unhealthy lifestyles, it just dosen’t make sense that someone who lives a healthy lifestyle and eats extra protein will have problems in the future as my boss tells me. But the thing is everyone will have some sort of health problem sometime down the road. It’s way to general, like a horoscope or something. There is just no way. And then again if a problem did occur, proove it…
By the way the responses have been great so far (as I knew they would be) I just don’t know if I want him to read stuff like “tell him to fuck off and get back to your workout” But that sure is funny though. I’m sure I will be grinning ear to ear at times during the day just thinking about that. These posts are great and spark comeback ideas as well.[/quote]
Hahahahaha.
Oh lord…sorry dude.
Forgot that this guy was your boss.
Yes, i would advise not telling him to fuck off.
Anyway.
Just question why he thinks what he thinks.
Where did he read it, why does he believe it, etc.
Find out specifically what he is objecting to or having issue with and what hard data he has to back it up.
Typically when you probe things like this and ask someone to get specific with their point, they have really no basis and are simply trying to be superior.
I’d also ask your boss how much he gets paid for his nutrition advice, how many football teams, olympic athletes, track athletes, bodybuilders and powerlifters he has as clients, how he has done in the bodybuilding and powerlifting competitions he has entered, and how long it took him to complete his PHD in Nutritional Biochemistry.
And…wouldn’t it make sense to consider the advice from someone like this? And wouldn’t it make even more sense to try the one and only nutritional supplement this person has developed and “put his name on” so to speak?
[quote]Dave_ wrote:
Ok - I’m assuming (hoping) you are far more muscular than your “superior”.
If this is in fact the case, look him up and down, then perform your best “most muscular” pose*, and roar;
“Here’s your goddamn proof you dumbass pencilneck!!!”
*bursting our of your clothes at this point would somewhat enhance the effect.
Glad to be of assistance:-)[/quote]
There is absolutely no comparision between the two of us. In my mind the proof is in the pudding, and mine is indeed much, much thicker. This in my mind proves my theories. On his side there has only been failure after any attempt whether mass or cut. I actually feel bad for him because of this.
So guess who just made him a diet recently? That’s right, me. The reason is that he says he can help others but can’t make out his own programs. The thing is that he helps people who are just plain fat and out of shape. Their goal is to look normal, not like a bodybuilder. So his knowledge is very broad and is very smart in many different aspects. An example of this would be that he could consult someone who takes medications and would know which fat burner or not to give the person. He told me that diabetics can’t use fish oil. If this is true, I had no clue and learn alot from him. He is very book smart and one of the best communicators I’ve ever met. I have alot of respect for him. It’s just that many of these theories do not work in real life as he will find this out for himself for what he wants to do.
I actually got him to admit this the other day that his theories are flawed. The reason? He was talking about how great he looked when he was cut. But get this he was only 160 lbs at 5"11. And using 1 AD. Now if someone was to post a pic of themselves with those stats, there would be some major flaming… So I balled up and told him that honestly he was just skinny and said it twice in the conversation. I added that for someone his height anything under 180 lbs is just plain ridiculous. So now I am helping him get up to 180 cut. There is no time frame, it will take the time it takes.
Anyway, man this has been interesting so far, but I think the subject needs to be addressed again. I think the best test for Biotest to do would be a comparision of sort. Let’s say have a guy drink a post workout drink with a 2:1 ratio with just plain dextrose and an isolate, then check protein synthesis, cortisol levels things like that…
Then compare it to Surge. I think this is the most relevant comparison because it would be comparing what I think is something that most people use(2:1-3:1) carb to protein ratio in the post workout drink. In my mind to be totally sold on Surge, this is how it would be done. The proof would be undeniable.
Until then,I make my own post workout shakes because dextrose is cheap as hell and so is isolate in bulk. I know people don’t like to hear this but if Surge came in like a 50 serving can or something it would make so much more sense.
10 servings would last me a week or so if I was to use it the way I’d like. I still don’t know why it’s not sold in a bigger format. I mean a pack of gum has 10 servings in it. And you can buy it in packs of 4 bringing the cost way down.
I would like to mention that I truely don’t think I’m smarter than the Biotest team and don’t want to come off as someone who is telling them how to conduct their business. It’s merely some ideas or brainstorming from your every day bodybuilder.
Well it sounds like he knows a few things here and there.
However, what you’re experiencing with this argument/discussion is the vast difference between helping someone simply “lose weight” or “diet” and sport nutrition for performance.
That’s really the disgreement.
Ask any number of (typically) fat “nutritionists” about this and they’ll pull out the government-approved pyramid and tell you you don’t need more protein than the average soccer mom, etc…
Helping someone who is overweight to simply “get thinner” and advising a bodybuilder on how to put on the most muscle possible or an athlete on how to perform at his/her peak are two very different projects.
[quote]sven33 wrote:
Well it sounds like he knows a few things here and there.
However, what you’re experiencing with this argument/discussion is the vast difference between helping someone simply “lose weight” or “diet” and sport nutrition for performance.
That’s really the disgreement.
Ask any number of (typically) fat “nutritionists” about this and they’ll pull out the government-approved pyramid and tell you you don’t need more protein than the average soccer mom, etc…
Helping someone who is overweight to simply “get thinner” and advising a bodybuilder on how to put on the most muscle possible or an athlete on how to perform at his/her peak are two very different projects.[/quote]
Agreed. He gets his info from all these safe sources which is o.k. for people wanting to look just normal. What steams me is when I hear him tell people to just mix a scoop of protein in milk after training. I mean where are the carbs? The downer is that he thinks these methods are sufficient for bodybuilders and there is just no way. To quote Berardi, I told him there is a big difference between what your body needs and what is optimal. Then the whole proof thing comes up and he talks of the dangers and so on. And then I’m told that I’m closed minded and need to open my horizons when it comes to sources.
The way I see it, is if someone who was just plain fat was to follow the recommendations by me or people on this forum ( it’s pretty much a given fact that most of us agree that complex carbs and protein during the day, fast carbs and proteins after the workout, followed by another meal, and before bed slow release protein with fat is the best info that we know for now. The problem is that most of this is way over most people’s head.
The other thing that is rarely mentioned is the cost of all this. When people see a 2 lbs container of protein they often ask how many months is this going to last? So it can be tough getting someone to use something that they don’t really want to in the first place, and at the needed frequency, proper timming and all, it’s like like
I said, it’s way over their head.
People are so badly educated when it comes to nutrition that when I start giving infromation on complex carbs versus simple carbs, I’ve alread lost 95% of people. This is why normal people in my mind would rather talk to a typical bullshit nutritionist. They’re not known for dispensing such info. It’s within their comfort zone and probably feel they’re doing something right by seeing a “professional”. I’d be willing to bet that these are the same people who get a gym membership around the new year and never go. So in a sense which is better? To give advice that you know the person is most likely to follow even though it’s not the best? Or maybe go with what can be perceived by some as a tougher route. My judgement is pretty good on this. And I take baby steps with them. In the end there are always different ways to go from A to B. And I sincerely believe mine are better. However in many ways our knowledge combined are also very effective. Actually the other day after another one of our fights I told him. “Don’t worry, I’m with you”… Every hero needs a vilain ya know. His main problem I think is that he has way more education than me therefore I must not be well informed. If that’s the case why was Dan Duchaine so smart with a degree in what was it? Theatre?
[quote]Tin Can wrote:
So I want proof. Tin can[/quote]
Why? Let your friend come up with the “proof”. Where’s the proof that the body can’t absorb more than 30 grams of protein?
Do you think when a caveman found a piece of meat he only ate a portion smaller than the size of his palm? If that’s all the protein he could absorb at one time, none of us would be here now…
This is basically the thinking and rational behind Surge and JB’s thoughts on the best postworkout nutrition you can have.
These should really answer everything.
And probably the reason JB hasn’t responded personally to any of this is because there are TONS of articles, roundtables, etc on this subject.
Dextrose vs Maltodextrin vs Glucose.
This protein vs that…etc.
[quote]David Barr wrote:
BSims wrote:
“For those who want to understand no reason is needed. For those who don’t want to understand no reason is good enough.”
Do you have a source on this? I’m going to replace “understand” with “believe” (just to make it more reader-friendly) and spam it.
Thanks.[/quote]