I Want My Endurance Back

He guys! I’m new to the forum so again “hi”. Right now I have a bit of a problem. I want to take part in a kickboxing tournament towards the end of feburary. But unfortunately my training for the last ten weeks has been DeFrancos WS4SB. (which is an awesome program for increasing strength but does very little for conditioning).

So right now during sparring I’m really good during the first two rounds but then I m totally gassed. I can definitely say that I’m not so much lacking muscular endurance but definitely cardio-respiratory endurance. So my question can I solve this problem in two months? and if so, how?

Run. Spar. Do padwork. Fight more.

[quote]partybison wrote:
He guys! I’m new to the forum so again “hi”. Right now I have a bit of a problem. I want to take part in a kickboxing tournament towards the end of feburary. But unfortunately my training for the last ten weeks has been DeFrancos WS4SB. (which is an awesome program for increasing strength but does very little for conditioning).

So right now during sparring I’m really good during the first two rounds but then I m totally gassed. I can definitely say that I’m not so much lacking muscular endurance but definitely cardio-respiratory endurance. So my question can I solve this problem in two months? and if so, how?[/quote]
for cardio do plyometrics
for strength run a lot
for flexibility do sprints

Buy jump rope.

Use jump rope.

Win.

Cool thanks for the input. Got a jump-rope will run more and OF COURSE do my sprints for flexibility ;).Up to this year I never had to think too much about endurance as I commuted with my bike everyday, but now I moved and my problem is that I never really looked into endurance training. Should I do it every day or every other day?
Should one gradually increase it like with strength training or can you jump in headlong? I’ve heard alot about crossfit-style training burning you out?

I also came across this link:
http://www.fightauthority.com/martial-arts-topics/training-your-body/mma-strength-endurance-workout-training/

but there is not even an author stated so I don’t now how credible this information is
basically it says you should do doubles with 65-85 percent of 1RM for between 15-20 sets with little rest in between.

any recommendations for a program (unfortunately I can only spar two times a week, sometimes three times)

Jump rope for rounds, cut out distance running and switch to sprints, and change to the compressed version of 5/3/1 5/3/1 Reloaded .

[quote]goldengloves wrote:
Jump rope for rounds, cut out distance running and switch to sprints, and change to the compressed version of 5/3/1 5/3/1 Reloaded .

[/quote]
If his endurance is poor why in the world would he do sprints. Is logic lost in the strength and conditioning world? See my post was intended as a joke because some of you actually believe this shit.

the 2x a week 5/3/1 split looks really good. but I think it’s comparable to WS4SB if you cut out the jump training and the upper body repetition day (like I have done the last two weeks). But it’s good to see that Wendler recommends 3 conditioning work outs per week on top of the strength stuff.

from the article: 5/3/1 Reloaded

“But at NO time, ever, should you dump one of those three things (strength, hypertrophy, conditioning) completely. That’s when you can potentially run into problems.”

that is what I did, in hindsight pretty stupid.

to Sardine12

could you please elaborate that? and what would be your recommendation?
I don’t want to go into the opposite extreme and sacrifice strength for endurance but at the moment the latter is definitely a priority

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:
Jump rope for rounds, cut out distance running and switch to sprints, and change to the compressed version of 5/3/1 5/3/1 Reloaded .

[/quote]
If his endurance is poor why in the world would he do sprints. Is logic lost in the strength and conditioning world? See my post was intended as a joke because some of you actually believe this shit.[/quote]

I don’t know, same reason USA boxing and professional fighters use sprints probably. Unless somehow numerous sprints wont increase your endurance. You can actually exclusively sprint if it tickles your fancy, other than warming up and warming down of course.

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:
Jump rope for rounds, cut out distance running and switch to sprints, and change to the compressed version of 5/3/1 5/3/1 Reloaded .

[/quote]
If his endurance is poor why in the world would he do sprints. Is logic lost in the strength and conditioning world? See my post was intended as a joke because some of you actually believe this shit.[/quote]

I don’t know, same reason USA boxing and professional fighters use sprints probably. Unless somehow numerous sprints wont increase your endurance. You can actually exclusively sprint if it tickles your fancy, other than warming up and warming down of course.

[/quote]

Sprinting is for football players. Long hard bouts of cardio is for fighters. Dont always believe what u read in Sports Illustrated.

[quote]partybison wrote:
the 2x a week 5/3/1 split looks really good. but I think it’s comparable to WS4SB if you cut out the jump training and the upper body repetition day (like I have done the last two weeks). But it’s good to see that Wendler recommends 3 conditioning work outs per week on top of the strength stuff.

from the article: 5/3/1 Reloaded

“But at NO time, ever, should you dump one of those three things (strength, hypertrophy, conditioning) completely. That’s when you can potentially run into problems.”

that is what I did, in hindsight pretty stupid.

to Sardine12

could you please elaborate that? and what would be your recommendation?
I don’t want to go into the opposite extreme and sacrifice strength for endurance but at the moment the latter is definitely a priority[/quote]

Sure I’ll explain, boxing is an aerobic alactic sport. Because of the overall length of the fight and the constant movement the main energy system being utilized is the aerobic system. If your cardio is poor as you put it, you need to focus on getting that better by doing long bouts of exercise running, bike swimming (think endurance). Sprints which tend to be lactic or alactic and are not going to do shit for your endurance in this case. Now sprints can be helpful, but if your endurance is poor you need to focus on that first. The best thing to do would be to go to Lyle Mcdonald’s site where he has a bunch of articles on endurance training they are quite lengthy reads, but have a huge amount of good usable information. Most boxers do road work and while you don’t necessarily have to go out and run you should understand why they do this. All this tabata, circuit, lactic acid is bull shit. I mean even the big olympic wrestlers ran, Karelin, the Russian team all ran/run at least twice a week or more, some do daily. And running a bit isn’t going to kill strength levels, I mean if you are running marathons and not eating, yeah you will probably get weaker. But it is important to remember that a minimalist approach to strength training is best. A ton of top fighters lift two maybe three days max. Also you should have very basic strength goals. A bodyweight bench etc… There is no need to overdo your strength training. Lastly many athletes who have adequate strength levels get away with maintaining strength once every ten days, it’s individual really but less is more. Even in sprinting if you read speed trap Charlie Francis eventually went super minimalist with Ben Johnson doing 4 exercises once or twice a week.

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]partybison wrote:
the 2x a week 5/3/1 split looks really good. but I think it’s comparable to WS4SB if you cut out the jump training and the upper body repetition day (like I have done the last two weeks). But it’s good to see that Wendler recommends 3 conditioning work outs per week on top of the strength stuff.

from the article: 5/3/1 Reloaded

“But at NO time, ever, should you dump one of those three things (strength, hypertrophy, conditioning) completely. That’s when you can potentially run into problems.”

that is what I did, in hindsight pretty stupid.

to Sardine12

could you please elaborate that? and what would be your recommendation?
I don’t want to go into the opposite extreme and sacrifice strength for endurance but at the moment the latter is definitely a priority[/quote]

Sure I’ll explain, boxing is an aerobic alactic sport. Because of the overall length of the fight and the constant movement the main energy system being utilized is the aerobic system. If your cardio is poor as you put it, you need to focus on getting that better by doing long bouts of exercise running, bike swimming (think endurance). Sprints which tend to be lactic or alactic and are not going to do shit for your endurance in this case. Now sprints can be helpful, but if your endurance is poor you need to focus on that first. The best thing to do would be to go to Lyle Mcdonald’s site where he has a bunch of articles on endurance training they are quite lengthy reads, but have a huge amount of good usable information. Most boxers do road work and while you don’t necessarily have to go out and run you should understand why they do this. All this tabata, circuit, lactic acid is bull shit. I mean even the big olympic wrestlers ran, Karelin, the Russian team all ran/run at least twice a week or more, some do daily. And running a bit isn’t going to kill strength levels, I mean if you are running marathons and not eating, yeah you will probably get weaker. But it is important to remember that a minimalist approach to strength training is best. A ton of top fighters lift two maybe three days max. Also you should have very basic strength goals. A bodyweight bench etc… There is no need to overdo your strength training. Lastly many athletes who have adequate strength levels get away with maintaining strength once every ten days, it’s individual really but less is more. Even in sprinting if you read speed trap Charlie Francis eventually went super minimalist with Ben Johnson doing 4 exercises once or twice a week.[/quote]

Actually, boxing is primarily an anaerobic sport.

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:
Jump rope for rounds, cut out distance running and switch to sprints, and change to the compressed version of 5/3/1 5/3/1 Reloaded .

[/quote]
If his endurance is poor why in the world would he do sprints. Is logic lost in the strength and conditioning world? See my post was intended as a joke because some of you actually believe this shit.[/quote]

I don’t know, same reason USA boxing and professional fighters use sprints probably. Unless somehow numerous sprints wont increase your endurance. You can actually exclusively sprint if it tickles your fancy, other than warming up and warming down of course.

[/quote]

Sprinting is for football players. Long hard bouts of cardio is for fighters. Dont always believe what u read in Sports Illustrated.
[/quote]

The fighters I primarily deal with are amateurs, their bouts last four 2:00 minute rounds. Before I started working with them they’d typically jog 2-3 miles as requested by their trainer. Excluding warm up I’ll have them do something like four 400m sprints with a minute between each, three 200m sprints with 30 seconds rest between sprints, and one 100m sprint. I’ve noticed improvements in their stamina and an improved focus since the shorter distance combined with a rest period tends to make them feel like they’re doing less work.

I’ve been involved in boxing for nearly 12 years and messing with S&C programs for five years, this isn’t stuff I’ve read in Sports Illustrated. Boxing is just an inner city sport who’s S&C is slowly coming out of the dark ages. Fighters just jog 5 miles because Jack Dempsey did it, then Joe Louis, and so on. To this day most fighters will probably rely entirely on jogging long distances at a slow pace for their cardio for no other reason than another fighter did it.

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

The fighters I primarily deal with are amateurs, their bouts last four 2:00 minute rounds. Before I started working with them they’d typically jog 2-3 miles as requested by their trainer. Excluding warm up I’ll have them do something like four 400m sprints with a minute between each, three 200m sprints with 30 seconds rest between sprints, and one 100m sprint. I’ve noticed improvements in their stamina and an improved focus since the shorter distance combined with a rest period tends to make them feel like they’re doing less work.

I’ve been involved in boxing for nearly 12 years and messing with S&C programs for five years, this isn’t stuff I’ve read in Sports Illustrated. Boxing is just an inner city sport who’s S&C is slowly coming out of the dark ages. Fighters just jog 5 miles because Jack Dempsey did it, then Joe Louis, and so on. To this day most fighters will probably rely entirely on jogging long distances at a slow pace for their cardio for no other reason than another fighter did it.
[/quote]

Absolutely agree. Long distance running has its place, especially when maintaining weight, but to say that fighters shouldn’t do sprints is asinine.

Sprinting, especially interval type work, taxes your body in a more similar way to boxing than just a long distance run.

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]partybison wrote:
the 2x a week 5/3/1 split looks really good. but I think it’s comparable to WS4SB if you cut out the jump training and the upper body repetition day (like I have done the last two weeks). But it’s good to see that Wendler recommends 3 conditioning work outs per week on top of the strength stuff.

from the article: 5/3/1 Reloaded

“But at NO time, ever, should you dump one of those three things (strength, hypertrophy, conditioning) completely. That’s when you can potentially run into problems.”

that is what I did, in hindsight pretty stupid.

to Sardine12

could you please elaborate that? and what would be your recommendation?
I don’t want to go into the opposite extreme and sacrifice strength for endurance but at the moment the latter is definitely a priority[/quote]

Sure I’ll explain, boxing is an aerobic alactic sport. Because of the overall length of the fight and the constant movement the main energy system being utilized is the aerobic system. If your cardio is poor as you put it, you need to focus on getting that better by doing long bouts of exercise running, bike swimming (think endurance). Sprints which tend to be lactic or alactic and are not going to do shit for your endurance in this case. Now sprints can be helpful, but if your endurance is poor you need to focus on that first. The best thing to do would be to go to Lyle Mcdonald’s site where he has a bunch of articles on endurance training they are quite lengthy reads, but have a huge amount of good usable information. Most boxers do road work and while you don’t necessarily have to go out and run you should understand why they do this. All this tabata, circuit, lactic acid is bull shit. I mean even the big olympic wrestlers ran, Karelin, the Russian team all ran/run at least twice a week or more, some do daily. And running a bit isn’t going to kill strength levels, I mean if you are running marathons and not eating, yeah you will probably get weaker. But it is important to remember that a minimalist approach to strength training is best. A ton of top fighters lift two maybe three days max. Also you should have very basic strength goals. A bodyweight bench etc… There is no need to overdo your strength training. Lastly many athletes who have adequate strength levels get away with maintaining strength once every ten days, it’s individual really but less is more. Even in sprinting if you read speed trap Charlie Francis eventually went super minimalist with Ben Johnson doing 4 exercises once or twice a week.[/quote]

Actually, boxing is primarily an anaerobic sport.

[quote]Beast Status wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:
Jump rope for rounds, cut out distance running and switch to sprints, and change to the compressed version of 5/3/1 5/3/1 Reloaded .

[/quote]
If his endurance is poor why in the world would he do sprints. Is logic lost in the strength and conditioning world? See my post was intended as a joke because some of you actually believe this shit.[/quote]

I don’t know, same reason USA boxing and professional fighters use sprints probably. Unless somehow numerous sprints wont increase your endurance. You can actually exclusively sprint if it tickles your fancy, other than warming up and warming down of course.

[/quote]

Sprinting is for football players. Long hard bouts of cardio is for fighters. Dont always believe what u read in Sports Illustrated.
[/quote]

The fighters I primarily deal with are amateurs, their bouts last four 2:00 minute rounds. Before I started working with them they’d typically jog 2-3 miles as requested by their trainer. Excluding warm up I’ll have them do something like four 400m sprints with a minute between each, three 200m sprints with 30 seconds rest between sprints, and one 100m sprint. I’ve noticed improvements in their stamina and an improved focus since the shorter distance combined with a rest period tends to make them feel like they’re doing less work.

I’ve been involved in boxing for nearly 12 years and messing with S&C programs for five years, this isn’t stuff I’ve read in Sports Illustrated. Boxing is just an inner city sport who’s S&C is slowly coming out of the dark ages. Fighters just jog 5 miles because Jack Dempsey did it, then Joe Louis, and so on. To this day most fighters will probably rely entirely on jogging long distances at a slow pace for their cardio for no other reason than another fighter did it.
[/quote]
No boxing is not anaerobic. Dig up a science book.

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

No boxing is not anaerobic. Dig up a science book.[/quote]

Who gives a shit about science books? Have you ever boxed before? Ever?

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

No boxing is not anaerobic. Dig up a science book.[/quote]

Who gives a shit about science books? Have you ever boxed before? Ever?

rossboxing.com/thegym/thegym21.htm[/quote]
Are you serious or just stupid. I’m guessing both, whatever if gassing suits you have fun. Anything past two minutes is gasp, aerobic even middle distance runners do a lot of aerobic work. Unless boxing is some mythical sport where the laws of science do not apply you are wrong.

I never said sprints were bad, only that boxing is primarily an aerobic sport. I even said sprints are fine after he builds his foundation. He said he has a cardio problem and a bunch of morons, you included are saying sprints, and boxing is anaerobic.

Read the link I posted dipshit. Boxing is far from strictly aerobic.

And you didn’t answer me- have you ever boxed?

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Read the link I posted dipshit. Boxing is far from strictly aerobic.

And you didn’t answer me- have you ever boxed?[/quote]

Derp are you retarded (yes, yes you are) that article is average at best and just goes over the energy systems. That info is OLD you don’t perform more “lactic work” to gain tolerance you work your aerobic system which prevents you from reaching anaerobic threshold as fast. That is ancient info. You clearly have only read some half assed studies and know nothing about how the body functions or produces energy. Good day moron.

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Read the link I posted dipshit. Boxing is far from strictly aerobic.

And you didn’t answer me- have you ever boxed?[/quote]

Derp are you retarded (yes, yes you are) that article is average at best and just goes over the energy systems. That info is OLD you don’t perform more “lactic work” to gain tolerance you work your aerobic system which prevents you from reaching anaerobic threshold as fast. That is ancient info. You clearly have only read some half assed studies and know nothing about how the body functions or produces energy. Good day moron.[/quote]

Oh ok, so you’ve never boxed. That’s good. You also sounds about 19.

Boxing is primarily anaerobic. It is bursts of action followed by a brief respite, over and over and over again, and within a bigger bubble of the construct of rounds, where its 3 minutes on, one minute off.

What I know is that being able to run five miles a day does not mean you’re going to have the endurance to box even two rounds. No one is saying that aerobic work is useless, but I’m saying that it’s not going to correlate directly to whether you gas or not.

So have fun with your books, but until you’ve put those gloves on, I don’t really give a shit what you think. You know nothing, and you’ve proven it a few times in this forum.

wrong again but ok