I Took Too Much Cypionate

Lower SHBG means more unbound free testosterone which will be lost quickly if not doing multiple injection a week.

Low SHBG men need less total testosterone to achieve solid free testosterone numbers, a high SHBG man needs a higher total testosterone to achieve the equivalent free testosterone of a low SHBG man.

I know twice a week or EOD injections are preferred but are once a week injections not effective? I’m on 300mg once a week. My E2 and TT are/were low

Once weekly usually isn’t the best option, levels will swing and you will feel it.

I get it, you don’t like needles. Most of us feel this way at first and choose the less than optimal choice until we get tired of little progress, then we give in and do what’s necessary.

Take the shortcut and you’ll feel better sooner rather than later.

I use 29 gauge insulin syringes in the shoulders and outer quads.

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When men have too much estrogen they tend to get overly emotional.
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Once again, it’s about ratios, and while I did get this from physiolojik, it makes sense, and he is a reliable source given his medical degrees and extensive study and experience with hormones. if you look at the data of high doses of testosterone, 300mg, 600mg, and anything 200mg weekly, no subjects became emotional with brain fog, depression and lethargy, in one study a very small minority of subjects became mildly manic, that’s the opposite of lethargic, brain fog and whatnot . I don’t think there is data to back up higher levels of estrogen in the presence of high testosterone levels causes emotional instability, brain fog and all that.

I don’t believe this to be true either, frequency of testosterone injections is related to how fast the individual metabolises and clears the drug from their system, give me a study proving that SHBG increases the clearing rate of testosterone… SHBG can also fluctuate throughout the day. The amount of testosterone that isn’t bound to SHBG and albumin is a very small percentage, so the thought that this tiny difference makes one require a shot every week to a shot every other day is absurd, if you need a shot EOD then you must metabolise/ clear testosterone at a fast rate. Low SHBG is also associated with liver dysfunction and impaired insulin sensitivity

I agree. Actually I don’t think it’s helpful us telling guys to start on multiple injections because a single lab reads shbg low. I read some guys with low normal and high normal inject at different intervals. I have seen no pattern.

In my case My shbg read low 20s. Then another lab was 34. Should I keep changing my protocol based on this? Hell no…

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I make this point often and got tired of saying it to counter some of the advice on here.
Very well articulated.

I have low SHBG, I also have mildly impaired glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity. WOOOOOOOT health issues YEEEEEET #planningmyfuneral #darkjokes However I’ve had tests as high (for SHBG) as 30 and as low as 13, interestingly it doesn’t appear to be correlated with androgen levels, I once had TT of 1500 2 days after a 250mg shot of sus, my SHBG was 30, by shbg was in the low teens when I had hypogonadism, strange right. As androgens are known to lower SHBG

@charlie12

What, then, determines how fast the body metabolizes T?

All I can say is that I have found anecdotes of people complaining about similar symptoms as me. These guys tend to be on poor protocols where they get large doses once every week or two.

Or, a guy I work with seems like he jumped into a cycle without having enough knowledge. He was injecting EOD. He only did the cycle for 3 weeks and said he put on close to thirty pounds. Of course, a lot of that could be water weight. He complained of horrible mood swings and that’s why he quit the cycle. He wasn’t taking an AI.

I think I would be much better if I had AIs but i still think a once weekly or biweekly protocol is less optimal than EOD or twice per week. If you Google “TRT and anxiety” or “TRT and depression” a shitload of results will pop up and explain (in theory) why anxiety and depression result from TRT. I have since moved beyond those concerns. I want to get on a protocol that works for me.

You seem to be the only guy I’ve ran into on T-Nation that doesn’t think a dose of 200-300mg is high. I don’t want to question your authority here, since you know much more than I do. But the protocols I see recommended, including the stickie for injection protocol, suggest much lower doses (e.g. 50-100mg) more frequently (EOD or twice per week) and the need to take an AI. From what I understand, aromatization is unavoidable if you are on TRT. It may be the case that my body converts more T > e2 than on average. I don’t want to speculate.

Anyhow, thanks for your responses.

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My doctor happens to have a private practice and has been doing TRT for more than 2 decades and has a very high rate of success and his clinic is well regarded by many people all over the world. Dr. Saya states more frequent injections is best and not harmful in anyway, people who don’t like needles will come up with excuses for infrequent injections or lack the commitment to inject more frequently.

We also know that smaller more frequent injections can lower and keep estrogen more controlled, it can even keep hematocrit lower. These large infrequent dosages will increase testosterone and estrogen peaks, therefore increasing hematocrit, estrogen and we see it every day here on this forum.

I will not put much stock into a study with a very limited study group, this is how incompetence breeds life to inaccurate misleading beliefs. That limited prostate study comes to mind, limited study with 4 patients, two of which were women for god sake. So one man gets cancer out of a group of 4 and TRT causes prostate cancer.

As for wildly fluctuating SHBG, it can be the result of wildly fluctuating Free T3 levels since it would slow or speed up every cell in your body including the liver which is where SHBG is made.

Systemlord, would you mind posting your protocol and, if it’s not improper, cost of treatment? Are you on an AI? HCG?

I’m trying to establish how feasible TRT is for myself. Thanks, as always.

My protocol is 20mg EOD (80 weekly), no HCG, peptide injections to increase IGF-1 and growth hormone and dissolve anastrozole in 5mls of vodka and dose .2mls do to being an AI over-responder which we see a lot here and on other forums.

This protocol sees Total T 496, Free T 20.8 (Free T range 6.8-21.5) which is at the top of the reference ranges. Still trying to dial in estrogen and am experimenting on AI micro dosages. The cost for Defy Medical is $150 per month or $2000 per year.

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Why do you dissolve AI in vodka? You don’t take it orally? Do you take it at the same time as the 20mg injection? What are the main reasons you on TRT? Mood, energy, strength, or libido? You don’t experience any shrinkage?

Thank you!

2-300mg is high for TRT, esp 300mg, 300mg is 99 percent of the time a cruise for a really big dude or a cycle. For a cruise or cycle it isn’t though. 200mg is generally the highest one will go for TRT, and for quite a few 200mg will push them into low end supratherapeutic levels. However there is a small minority who will require more to reach normal testosterone levels. 200mg/wk would have me on average about 900-1000ng/dl, right at the top of what is deemed normal.

If you’re worried about hematocrit donate blood, it’s an easy and efficient way to lower HCT and RBC count and it’s a good thing to do (helping others out)

I actually donated today because, among other things, I have been worried about high RBC, high HCT, and high blood pressure (mine is normally on the low end of normal and TRT has undoubtedly increased my blood pressure).

That said, you brought up the fact that an injection protocol should not be calibrated in relation to SHBG and that “frequency of testosterone injections is related to how fast the individual metabolizes” the drug. What determines the speed of metabolism?

Just a heads up syslord since you have only been a defy patient for about 2 months Defy/Dr Saya only started measuring SHGB about 18 months ago. Your theories are coming from the cabal that runs exmale not Dr Saya.

Testosterone is primarily metabolised via the liver, so liver function will undoubtedly have a large role to play with regard to the metabolisation of testosterone. While SHBG is also produced in the liver, that doesn’t mean jack shit. There’s multiple ways testosterone can be metabolised. Various liver enzymes, the process of biotransformation, conversion of testosterone to DHT via interaction with 5a reductase enzyme, testosterone interacting with aromatase, 3b hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and 17b hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzymes are all examples of way’s testosterone can be metabolised. It’s a very complicated process that I am not extremely familiar with.

that’s Dr Crisler and Nelson Vergel, right?

@nihilistinhell what’s your current BP, you mentioned raised BP on trt, high blood pressure isn’t something to be fucking around with, it’s reputation as “the silent killer” is well deserved, if you have HBP go to the doctor and get it checked out asap.

Thanks. That would explain why test can cause liver damage.

I had it checked before donating blood. I think it was 117/70. It’s normal but my BP is usually lower, like 111/66. I experienced greater blood pressure after my first two injections than the last one. I think I feel better getting some blood out of my system, though.

Test is extremely unlikely to cause liver damage, while there has been a few cases of liver dysfunction developing from use of injectable testosterone, the incidence of this side effect is so slim that there isn’t really a positive correlation between testosterone use and liver dysfunction, although I have seen a report of some guy on a forum whoose liver enzymes consistently went up on TRT. The C17AA anabolic steroids (in the case of TRT methyltestosterone and fluoxymesterone) are the ones implicated with undeniable hepatotoxicity.

Btw your blood pressure is perfect, blood pressure can fluctuate a bit throughout the day, it’s possible those two measurements were the result of minor fluctuations. HCT/rbc count is individual, some people don’t notice any increase in haematological factors on trt, hell some people can cycle without HCT/RBC becoming an issue, and some will develop secondary polycythemia on 100mg of test/wk. Donating blood is the best way to ward off the possibilility of haematological issues, just watch ferratin, don’t want to drop it too low. However you should give blood whether you have high HCT/RBC or not, it’s a good deed, helps others in need.

It’s Vergels website but its a handful of regulars that came up with that low SHGB required daily injections. Defy’s most frequent protocol is M/W/F but if a patient asks " Heah I’ve read on the internet some guys have had good success with EOD or even daily can I try it? And Defy will say sure why not we will be glad to sell you the extra syringes. This is why everyone loves Defy. They say yes to just about everything except can I have 500mg/wk.

As best as I can guess from hanging out on these forums for over 3 years. Many guys with high SHGB have reported their SHGB goes down with big once a week shots and this gives them more Free T and free T is what you want.
Also guys with low SHGB, who don’t have free T issues but have high E2 issues say if they take smaller doses more frequently they get less E2 spikes.
So based on those reports some regular forum members who like playing internet doctor have come up with X SHGB = # of shots per week. This is their doing not Defy’s. I’ve been a Defy patient for over 3 years.

So, will they say yes to 499mg/wk? Just kidding, but will they prescribe like… 200mg weekly? Or HGH, Just curious