T Nation

I Think that "Natural Bodybuilding" is a Big Scam


Have you heard of Ben Carson?

Have you been alive for the past 2 years?

Have you ever watched curling?


@chubbybaby you are pure gold my friend, like the Jelly-of-the-month Club


"Born in Detroit, Michigan, and a graduate of Yale University and the University of Michigan Medical School.

He was the Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital from 1984 until his retirement in 2013. As a pioneer in neurosurgery, Carson’s achievements include performing the only successful separation of conjoined twins joined at the back of the head; pioneering the first successful neurosurgical procedure on a fetus inside the womb; performing the first completely successful separation of type-2 vertical craniopagus twins; developing new methods to treat brain-stem tumors; and reviving hemispherectomy techniques for controlling seizures.

He became the youngest chief of pediatric neurosurgery in the country at age 33. He has received more than 60 honorary doctorate degrees, dozens of national merit citations, and written over 100 neurosurgical publications.

In 2008, he was bestowed the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award in the United States."

Yeah, I guess us dark colored people “be” morons when we aren’t Democrats.

Sorry, I left the reservation a long time ago. Liberal whiteys have been trying to force me back on for a long time. Not going to happen.


@chubbybaby since you obviously bring up the age of the young man as a reasoning for questioning his status based off of your friend. I have 3 pics of three different young men. None over the age of 19 with 3 or less years of uninterrupted training under their belts… would you assume any of them might be on gear?


interested in hearing your opinion.


That settles it, I wasted the last 15 years of my life. Time to give up and shoot up I guess…


…damn, you really took my complete joke seriously, didn’t you…he was a weird candidate. Brilliant surgeon, as I already knew, but he will never not be hilarious for all the weird shit he said. Love that you made it a race issue, though. Nice touch.


@Facepalm_Death NAPALM DEATH WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT, I assume you know that band?

@physioLojik read this thread from the start, trolololololol


@unreal24278 @flappinit you guys are the best haha. I spit water out laughing at this shit.


I see what you did there. Well played.


Mr @chubbybaby ?


My thoughts:

Some people will always cheat, others won’t.

Some people know how to train and eat for the best results and it others don’t.

Some people know how to pose and display their physiques, others don’t.

That said, seeing someone in obvious contest/photo shoot condition is not always why you want to compare to, especially if you’ve never been in that condition yourself. Also, amount of time training means nothing because of two serious factors:

1- you may not know as much as you think you do.
2- your genetics may not be the same As whoever youre trying to look like.

When I first saw some natural bodybuilders onstage in 2006, I thought they were lying because they looked so impressive (on a stage in contest condition!) to my still willing to believe what I read in the magazines mind. When I actually learned that 99% of thes amazing bodies were relatively small and nothing even close to the IFbb pros I read about it made more sense.

Comparing your friend who looks ok, but not winning any titles any time soon, to someone with better conditioning, posing to show off his physique to his best advantage is a waste of time.



3- Your actual effort your putting in might be wanting…compared to others.

I needed to add that in.


So much this, man posing can make or break a competition. Sometimes way smaller/ less conditioned guys win because they know how to pose, out angle in ways that flatter their physiques.

However I’d like to point out (and you can argue with me) that Jeff seid isn’t natty. It doesn’t matter whether a person is natty or not but Jeff Seid isn’t, he might say he is… But he isn’t. Just wanted to throw that out there. The two pics the troll puts up is comparing a guy on gear with TOP NOTCH genetics and an average guy who trains hard, you can’t compare. Even if the guy in the second photo hopped on all the gear in the world he probs still wouldn’t look like Jeff Seid. @chubbybaby The trick is to stop trying to look like someone else, everyone is different genetically with regards to muscle insertions, how much mass they can put on etc. So chasing the look of someone else is both counterproductive and impossible I found this out the hard way as I had a friend who has awesome genes but didn’t train. So I thought " just gotta get to his weight and I’ll look like him" as we were the same height… Guess what, even when I was 20lbs heavier than him he still looked better than me, I was bigger, but he looked better, and he always will.


I just want to Point out that it isnt possible for 70% of the Population to look better or bigger than the 2nd guy

There are People who are gentically gifted, but they are far from your average ectomorph guy with moderate Testosterone to Moderate Estrogen levels


Even though you plucked it out your ass, I’d like to thank you for that tidbit of valuable information.

One time, I read a series of articles about how many guys genetically cant get visible abs. I ended up believing it. I then followed John Berardi and after I busted my ass, I had a great set of abs.

I would advice anyone listening to you, including yourself, to place your opinion into the same place as I have put the no abs articles. If not, I don’t know why you bother with this hobby, it’s just making you bitter and envious.

The right nutrition and training with the right attitude can get you a long way.

Note: I now only sport the single ab haha


this is bullshit, having nice muscle bellies has nothing to do with being an ectomorph or having testosterone levels in the average range. You posted a pic of your friend, a normal guy, vs a guy who is on tons of gear, has some of the best genetics ever and to boot it off has been training for 10+ years, that’s bullshit. The whole “frame” thing you’re obsessed with is also absolute bullshit, a guy with a small frame can have a good physique, and most guys would be happy to look like the second guy, he has a reasonably athletic, defined body that 99 percent of girls would find attractive, while it isn’t impressive for a professional bodybuilder/ competitive athlete, he still looks better than 99% of the general populace.

You have klinefelters syndrome for gods sake, get your TRT protocal straight, get to a level where you feel great, pump some iron, if you have metabolic syndrome like many ppl with klinefelters do get it sorted. look at yourself in the mirror after 3 months of training properly with a proper androgen replacement protocal and I guarantee you, you’ll see results. You can’t expect a guy with such a chromosomal abnormality to be shredded and muscular right out the box, it’s not to say you can’t have a nice physique, you have to work for it. If you spout that “my shoulders are too narrow I can’t workout” Bullshit then fine, just look the way you currently do for the rest of your life, I’m sure you’d prefer a nice toned body but whatever floats your boat. Or you could spend a ton of money on some stupid risky surgery and have the same physique you have now only with shoulders that are slightly wider (width that could’ve been built with the appropriate exercises anyway)


Im not quite sure what i should take, i hope that my doc will prescribe me testo

but ive also heard that tren can make your shoulder bones growth

a 1 shoulder width gain through longer clavicles will look much wider in relation than a 2 Inch delt muscle gain

If you got your clavicles lengthened, then your shoulder and arms will stick out of your chestcage which creates a complete different Illusion of being wide than gaining delt mass

Cody Simpsons Frame is similiar to the one of Zyzz and Seid, despite the fact that they both have 40lbs more muscle mass than him


Is this troll still going?


Got me hook line and sinker

There’s a name I’d never thought I’d read on these forums


I’m not sure if he’s a troll, or just very obsessed with the wrong aspects of bodybuilding, I have some other comments I could make about this thread but they’re not very nice so I’m going to keep them to myself.

are you fucking kidding me man, anabolic steroids aren’t going to increase your bone growth unless your plates aren’t fused, in which certain anabolic steroids with higher anabolic to androgenic ratios (oxandrolone, stanozolol and suprisingly fluoxymesterone) have been used to stimulate linear height gain in short children/ teenagers, you’re 19, it’s too late for growth lol, however this practice has largely been replaced with growth hormone, suprisingly though, this therapy does seem to work. All anabolic steroids will give you broader shoulders be it testosterone, trenbolone, nandrolone, clostebol, formebolone, northandrolone, hydroxystenozole, stenbolone, nisterime (i’m listing wierd ones no one has probably heard, now everyone can do some interesting research on random drugs lol), getting on TRT will be enough to spur significant growth of your shoulders, as androgens stimulate the development of secondary sexual characteristics, cycling right off the bat is a dumb, dumb, DUMB idea, as a matter of fact I wouldn’t reccomend you cycle at all… ever, tren is a nasty drug. If you’re so concerned about muscle mass go see one of those clinics (assuming you’re in the US) they’ll prescribe you a nice dose of test, maybe some anavar, however I just think you should start with TRT… and don’t cycle, you are the kind of person that would fuck themselves up with anabolic steroids via reckless use.