T Nation

I Think I'm Shut Down

I have been training since I was 16. I started AAS use when I was in my 20’s. I always did a 10-12 week cycle with multiple compounds. My PCT consisted of HCG 2 weeks after my last injection and nolvedex at 500mg per day for about 20 days. I understand now that most prtocals call for HCG use during cycle, but I cannot do anything about that now.

I went about 20 years with out using any gear until I turned 39 when I thought I needed the extra edge at my age. My first cyle, at that time was only 200mg of cypionate per week for 10 week. Then, I did a long 15 week cycle of 300mg of testE and 300mg of Deca per week. I used the same PCT as before…kept my gains…no problem.

All the forums I read said that I should up my test to 600mg per week which I did, and I also upped my deca to 600mg (this is where I was told I went wrong…that deca shuts you down hard , especially at those levels). I had an above average sex drive for my age. Had sex with someone or solo sex when not with someone almost every day and in between cylces. When I was on cycle, I wanted to and did have sex 2-3X a day with someone or solo.

After this last cycle, I did my normal PCT and seemed to get back to normal and then cratered. I can have sex with someone else, but I cannot or with a LOT of effort have solo sex. I am very depressed about it. Hell, one of the reasons I work out and try to look good is to get chics and have sex. If, I can’t do anything with them it’s a lost cause…very depressing. I went to see a doc, but I did not share with her my past cycle, becasue she did not ask and was afraid that she woud not prescribe the T if I might take other things with it.

My blood work put my T levels at 144…WAY low. She prescribed 200 mg of cypionate, gave me more HCG than I thought I needed and HGH. My libido was continuing to go lower after my meeting with her. So, I took some of my black market HCG hoping that would kick my normal test back into mormal ranges and get my HPTA going again. I took a 2000 IU shout and then took the rest at 500IUsper day. It seemed to improve, but shortly after discontinuing the HCG, I was right back to limp and working for 10 minutes just to squeeze one off. Good news I can still squeeze one of, but when you are dating chics that SUCKS!!!

I am trying to reach my doc. She is bad about retuning calls…too busy making money I guess to tell her what is going on. My research has told me that I need to take 2500 IUs EOD(high dose in this situation) to jump start and get my HPTA going again. I could always start AAS use to get my T levels back, but my research says that I might even do more damage to my testes and maybe put me on permanent TRT. (not just to supplement my natural T) which is NOT the situation I want to be in. I want to get back to my normal T levels.

I just want to get back to where my sex drive was before this last 600mg/TestE and 600mg Deca per week cycle. I am trying to reach my Doc, but I am freaking out in the mean time.

I would greatly appreciate any advice.

I have never taken Chlomid and don’t know anyone who has. I could possibly ask my doc to prescribe it.

Thanks in advance!

How long have you been on TRT dose of Cyp?

Wait you take 500mg of Nolva per day!???! That’s insane, I hope that’s a type O, and you also take hcg during pct? How long after did you start pct after the last pin?

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Wait you take 500mg of Nolva per day!???! That’s insane, I hope that’s a type O, [/quote]

Just to fight off some gyno, ya kno

I have no idea where you are getting your information, but you may want to call up your ISP and have them block access to that site for you because it is terrible. You’ve read that you need 2500 iu of HCG EOD? 500 mg of a SERM per day? That is just awful.

You did not mention an AI at all. What do you think happens to your E2 when you are blasting all that HCG.

What do you think blasting HCG is going to do while you are on 200 mg/week of Test Cyp?

Terrible.

My advice is to stop everything you are doing, do a proper PCT (which means just a SERM at a reasonable dose and no HCG) and run that for 4 weeks. Have bloodowrk done at the end of 4 weeks and adjust your protocol accordingly. Hopefully at the end of 4 weeks, you will have normal (or high) LH/FSH levels and normal T. Then you may need to tweak your E2 with an AI, which should fall after discontinuing the SERM.

Bottom line you need to stop reading bad information and you need blood tests.

HCG is suppressive bro, it only gets your teste’s to work not your HPTA.

I experienced a period where I wasn’t fully recovered due to under dosed SERMS.

What worked for me is getting some clomid and some nolva. I took 50mg of clomid and 40mg of nolva ED for 4 weeks. And my test levels are at the top range for physiological levels and as VTBalla mentioned, my LH levels are high as well.

You will probably recover fine with this type of protocol. I would try this and stop stressing about it. Just get some clomid and nolva, not from the doc because they will take forever and fuck it up somehow (unless you can get the dosages I listed) and then tell you some stupid bullshit. Do it for 4 weeks, then get a blood test.

Until then, there really isn’t a better way for you to proceed.

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Wait you take 500mg of Nolva per day!???! That’s insane, I hope that’s a type O, and you also take hcg during pct? How long after did you start pct after the last pin?[/quote]

No. I was taking 500IUs of HCG and 20mg of nolva. Sorry. I was not clear,

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I have no idea where you are getting your information, but you may want to call up your ISP and have them block access to that site for you because it is terrible. You’ve read that you need 2500 iu of HCG EOD? 500 mg of a SERM per day? That is just awful.

You did not mention an AI at all. What do you think happens to your E2 when you are blasting all that HCG.

What do you think blasting HCG is going to do while you are on 200 mg/week of Test Cyp?

Terrible.

My advice is to stop everything you are doing, do a proper PCT (which means just a SERM at a reasonable dose and no HCG) and run that for 4 weeks. Have bloodowrk done at the end of 4 weeks and adjust your protocol accordingly. Hopefully at the end of 4 weeks, you will have normal (or high) LH/FSH levels and normal T. Then you may need to tweak your E2 with an AI, which should fall after discontinuing the SERM.

Bottom line you need to stop reading bad information and you need blood tests.[/quote]

VT Balla:

I tried to reply with the quotes taken from other forums that are as equally as credible as this one (it all depends on the members who reply…not the site). Your moderator delelted all the sources I used to show you the research I had done…oh well.

My Dr. put me on HCG 2500mg EOD and 50mg clomid twice a day for 2 weeks with 25mg of clomid twice a day for the last week or so.

Have you ever been totally shut down?

Drop the hcg, its still suppressing you and not allowing the clomid to do it’s job.

[quote]Amateur wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I have no idea where you are getting your information, but you may want to call up your ISP and have them block access to that site for you because it is terrible. You’ve read that you need 2500 iu of HCG EOD? 500 mg of a SERM per day? That is just awful.

You did not mention an AI at all. What do you think happens to your E2 when you are blasting all that HCG.

What do you think blasting HCG is going to do while you are on 200 mg/week of Test Cyp?

Terrible.

My advice is to stop everything you are doing, do a proper PCT (which means just a SERM at a reasonable dose and no HCG) and run that for 4 weeks. Have bloodowrk done at the end of 4 weeks and adjust your protocol accordingly. Hopefully at the end of 4 weeks, you will have normal (or high) LH/FSH levels and normal T. Then you may need to tweak your E2 with an AI, which should fall after discontinuing the SERM.

Bottom line you need to stop reading bad information and you need blood tests.[/quote]

VT Balla:

I tried to reply with the quotes taken from other forums that are as equally as credible as this one (it all depends on the members who reply…not the site). Your moderator delelted all the sources I used to show you the research I had done…oh well.

My Dr. put me on HCG 2500mg EOD and 50mg clomid twice a day for 2 weeks with 25mg of clomid twice a day for the last week or so.

Have you ever been totally shut down?[/quote]

Yeah the forums here are sometimes tricky to navigate especially when outside information is concerned. Sucks but that’s the way it is, unfortunately. Its not to squash information, but to keep the site’s supplment sales safe.

Anyways, 2500 iu hcg EOD is great. For infertile females. I think that is where the line of dosing comes from, which is hcg’s primary use. Unfortunately a lot of doctors are not able to make the switch from marketed use and “off label use” (which is what we are) and adjust the dosages accordingly to the new environment. That is why you see some doctors prescribing their hypogonadal male patients 1 mg of Adex PER DAY, because that’s what the clinical studies show is useful FOR TREATING BREAST CANCER IN WOMEN.

I’ve given you my recommendation. I could give a fuck less if you followed it or not.