T Nation

I Seriously Need Guidance

My name is Rodney and I have some problems that I have tried to look on here and the net for answers and have found none. So here it is,

AGE- 31 was 30 at the time
HEIGHT- 5’7" on a good day
WEIGHT- 165 was at 190 when I started, was mainly in my stomach area
HAIR- not very thick kinda receding a little
BODY HAIR- Im hairy on my stomach and my chest, legs, and can probably grow a full beard if I could Im a Firefighter its not allowed
TT at initial test 86
Last TT test 162
MEDS- 100mg compounded test in lipoderm base
ACTIVITY- I woek out when I can not as much as I should, I work two jobs, but I am very active but its getting hard to be that way now
LIBIDO- some morning wood, no real desire to use it
SOCIAL ACTIVITY- I am depressed and dont want to be around anyone
KIDS- I have a 4 year old boy and he wears me out
I have noticed an ache in my testes but its not frequent and doesnt last long.
I had all the classic symptoms and kept telling my doc what I was feeling but she just kind of shrugged it off for a while and when she fimally checked me my TT was 86 (not a typo) and she started me on TRT. I used the gel 4 pumps a day fortesta 10mg for about six weeks and was retested and my level was 32 and I felt like crap. She increased the dose to 6 pumps a day and then was retested and came in around 380 so it was left there, and I felt way better than I had in a long time. I have been on TRT for about a year and everything was going great for about 8 months until I changed my T gel from Fortesta 10mg 6 pumps daily to a more affordable compounded cream from a local pharmacy.

I started with the same mg per day which was 60mg. When I got my levels checked again it had fallen to 162 so I had the pharmacy use a different base which is lipoderm and they increased the dose to 100mg. I have been doing this for about 3 weeks and I still don’t feel right.I dont have my labs but I am going to ask for another blood test, what should I ask to be checked? Any ideas on how this happened? Im sorry if this is not posted right I read the new guy post but my mental focus is not very good right now. Please any help would be appreciated.

The “Advice for New Guys” sticky at the top of the TRT forum has helped me greatly. Print it off and talk to your Dr. about it. I don’t have enough experience to comment on dosages, ect. but I know the guys on the forum are going to ask you to post your labs including E2 results. I’m going through similar issues right now and from reading about other people’s experiences it is a process that you have to committ to with the right Dr.

BTW-Being a firefighter do you not have good medical coverage for Androgel or a better transdrmal. I have just switched to injections of Test-E and am hoping for better results. Good luck and when you get your labs some of the guys on here will help straighten your situation out.

You’ll want to post all your labs you have done on here. Be sure to include the ranges as well. If you haven’t had the labs done listed here, you’ll want to get those ASAP. BE SURE TO GET ESTRADIOL (E2) tested too. You may have to battle for that one.

I haven’t tried the gel you’re using, but with androgel guys typically absorb around 10%, so if you’re using 100mg, you’re getting roughly 10mg/day. Given the fact that your levels were still very low on the dosage you were on (I’m assuming a range of 250-1100 or similar?), you appear to be a non-absorber, which could mean that you have thyroid issues. Regardless, T levels are much more likely to fluctuate when using topical T. You would do best to switch to injections and self-inject if you can convince your doctor. It’s really the best possible way. There is no doubt how much T you are getting with injections. The issue would be if your doctor only would allow you to do the injections in his office, in which case would probably be weekly, or even worse, bi-weekly. Self-injecting can be done in the thigh with 0.5in 29gauge syringes. This is off-label use, though. If he’ll let you do it at home just tell him you’re injecting IM in the glutes. You can buy insulin syringes on the internet.

See if you can get your doc on board with this protocol

I think this would alleviate a lot of your issues. Make sure you read up on this forum and present your case to him. He can’t argue with sound logic, and it he does, it’s most likely because he doesn’t know much about the topic. Print off all your material for him to read at his leisure. This may help. hCG will keep the testes working and prevent the aching. Anastrozole will keep the estradiol in check. Bad T/E2 ratio can make you feel TERRIBLE.

You need to have other lab data and you need to post lab ranges.

With LH/FSH labs prior to TRT you would have known something about why your levels were low. Too late now.

At best, transdermal absorption is around 10%. You are not absorbing well. Often this is because of thyroid problems, reread the advice for new guys sticky and post info about your body temperature, use of iodized salt and any iodine in your vitamins [along with history of use].

Read the Estradiol sticky.
Read the finding a TRT doc sticky.
Read the protocol for injections sticky.

Read other guys’ threads.

Understand T+AI+hCG

Thanks for the replies. I am going to get some more labs done hopefully this week and I will post them. The TT was the only number I was given, I made the mistake of trusting the doc to know what was going on. I did call and I was told that I could get on the injections and Im gonna ask about hcg also, and I can do self injections.

The reason my insurance is not too great now is I just transferred to a new department and I am not fully covered for a year. I was wanting to get your opinion on the hormone pellets that they put in, how effective are those.

Get copy of labs from doc, there may be more there of interest.

Will do KSman. Thanks for the help. I had no idea there was so much involved in this. I thought if your numbers were low you just added to that. I know I will never just take the docs word for it anymore. I know she said she gave someone else depot testostorone 200 mg per cc and to take 1/2 ml weekley, but I know to split that up to 2x weekly from you guys.

yes, there is a big learning curve, but you need that to navigate the medical system

I just got my script for the injectible test cyp 200 mg per ml at 100 mg per week. I am going to split it up into multiples, do you think I should do 2x or 3x for a more even level. I almost had a stroke when they gave me the syringe it was 21g 1.5 in 3cc that seems way to big looks like a harpoon. I asked for something smaller and he said thats the size you need it wont go through anything smaller, i know this is crap cause all you guys use smaller. I plan on doing the subq route, whats your opinion on that I go some small ones like what was mentioned in the sticky. Its gonna be after the holidays before I can get new labs.

[quote]hotrod81 wrote:
I just got my script for the injectible test cyp 200 mg per ml at 100 mg per week. I am going to split it up into multiples, do you think I should do 2x or 3x for a more even level. I almost had a stroke when they gave me the syringe it was 21g 1.5 in 3cc that seems way to big looks like a harpoon. I asked for something smaller and he said thats the size you need it wont go through anything smaller, i know this is crap cause all you guys use smaller. I plan on doing the subq route, whats your opinion on that I go some small ones like what was mentioned in the sticky. Its gonna be after the holidays before I can get new labs.[/quote]

you’re right, that’s a harpoon. My doc prescribed syringes with interchangeable needles (BD precisionglide). I had been drawing out with an 18g and injecting with a 26g IM. Just got some 27g .5" needles for the same syringes for sub Q. Maybe a tab big for sub Q. I might try 28g or 29g next.

I like drawing with the 18g. It’s fast and I get a lot fewer bubbles.

Sounds like a lot of expense and wasted T. But I am a minimalist.

The backfilling idea sounds pretty good I think I may try that. I did one subq injection yesterday and it was a breeze just a little slow to load. I used a 29g .5" 1cc syringe, I injected 50 mg for a 2x a week schedule, I was thinking of doing it every third day. What do you guys think about that schedule? I already feel so much better on the injectable than I was on the cream. I am gonna get my labs done after the holidays, is the fact that I was not absorbing the cream because of possible thyroid problems something to be concerned with or if I feel good and my numbers are good should I just not worry about it. I think I can safely say that my doc is very new to trt, but I will say that she has been very open minded and so far has allowed me to change my protocol when I need to.

Check and report your body temperatures as per the advice for new guys sticky. Then we will see about your thyroid function. Thyroid hormones are used to regulate body temperature.

Backfilling is a great opportunity to contaminate your injection and get an infection. Use a #29 1/2" 1/2 ml/cc syringe and the injection time is greatly reduced. Time to fill will not change.

You can have great TRT protocol and labs and feel like crap if your thyroid hormones are not right. Do not shrug off that factor.

Thanks for the reply sorry it’s been a while since I had time to get back with you. I went to the doc the other day and ask for bloodwork and she said to wait till next month to see what the injections do. I am taking 100 mg test cyp a week but I split it up to two doses injecting subq. I can tell its raising my t levels in just the way my strentgh feels I think. I have been doing injections for about 3 weeks now, but since I have been doing these I have noticed that my testicals are aching almost constantly now.

I told the doc about this when it first started and it was only every now and then and she just was like oh really well hum. I dont think she even knew what to say so I mentioned HCG and got little response from her. I have been sick lately and havent done my temps yet but I’m going to as soon as I feel better.