I Realized Why Evolution Is a Fact

Explain the flagella in the basic cell structure. Or the eye. Evolution hasn’t been able to. Maybe you can be so wise to deduce it for us.

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
I remember a bio class I took once, the teacher gave just on example on a cell. I don’t remember all the specifics but I believe it was the flagella that was being looked at? Apparently for that to form, 15 different things had to occur simultaneously and that is just 1 part of a cell. I believe in intelligent design with a side order of evolution.

This arguement (irreducible complexity) always truck me as funny, considering:

1 - Really… Going to rest the whole of you argument of an intelligent designer on the spinning tail of a bacteria? Okay…

2 - Google it. Its been thoroughly dismantled by people in the field. The only people still clinging to this idea are religious fundamentalist.

The tail didnt occur simultaneously, the “argument” is that if you take any one piece of the tail, it ceases to work. But that doesnt mean it had to form spontaneously, it is the more complex form of a previously simpler tail. Thats all.

[/quote]

I’m not basing my beliefs off a bacteria’s tail lol I was just using it b/c it’s a well known example. I don’t want to turn this into a religious debate so I’ll stop arguing here lol.

[quote]tkisner wrote:
Explain the flagella in the basic cell structure. Or the eye. Evolution hasn’t been able to. Maybe you can be so wise to deduce it for us.[/quote]

what do you mean evolution hasn’t been able to? haha, no seriously. Elaborate.

[quote]tkisner wrote:
Explain the flagella in the basic cell structure. Or the eye. Evolution hasn’t been able to. Maybe you can be so wise to deduce it for us.[/quote]

Seriously? …this stuff is all over the internet.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html

Irreducible Complexity is stupid. End of story. :expressionless:

[quote]Tumbles wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
wtf?

how is evolution a fact, theres black people and white people. there were no white people 80,000 years ago.

God created the master race after realizing our colored brethren were a second-rate creature.[/quote]

'scuse me?

DNA, the instruction book, Hello!

[quote]imhungry wrote:
Tumbles wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
wtf?

how is evolution a fact, theres black people and white people. there were no white people 80,000 years ago.

God created the master race after realizing our colored brethren were a second-rate creature.

'scuse me?[/quote]

Oh Shit…Round one!!!

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
wtf?

how is evolution a fact, theres black people and white people. there were no white people 80,000 years ago.[/quote]

Didnt got say “Let be there white” ?? It was something like that, my bible studies arent as up to date as they could be.

[quote]tkisner wrote:
Explain the flagella in the basic cell structure. Or the eye. Evolution hasn’t been able to. Maybe you can be so wise to deduce it for us.[/quote]

Please, please, please tell me you are joking? You could literally spend 14 seconds on google or wikipedia and find this information out.

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
I remember a bio class I took once, the teacher gave just on example on a cell. I don’t remember all the specifics but I believe it was the flagella that was being looked at? Apparently for that to form, 15 different things had to occur simultaneously and that is just 1 part of a cell. I believe in intelligent design with a side order of evolution.

This arguement (irreducible complexity) always truck me as funny, considering:

1 - Really… Going to rest the whole of you argument of an intelligent designer on the spinning tail of a bacteria? Okay…

2 - Google it. Its been thoroughly dismantled by people in the field. The only people still clinging to this idea are religious fundamentalist.

The tail didnt occur simultaneously, the “argument” is that if you take any one piece of the tail, it ceases to work. But that doesnt mean it had to form spontaneously, it is the more complex form of a previously simpler tail. Thats all.

I’m not basing my beliefs off a bacteria’s tail lol I was just using it b/c it’s a well known example. I don’t want to turn this into a religious debate so I’ll stop arguing here lol.[/quote]

Point taken… I didnt mean to imply you rested your beliefs on the idea, although this argument is currently the latest in last ditch efforts to try and make creationism sound scientific. Being that it was the only example you cited and that you still think there is an intelligent designer (there may well be, there is just no evidence of it yet) I thought I would just address it as though it were your beliefs.

In any event, the irreducible complexity argument was pretty weak from the get go. The foundation for the argument literally rested on the flagellum (tail) of a bacteria because golly, its pretty darn complicated… Pretty pathetic.

This kind of thinking is stifling. Stopping the research when something gets hard is not the way to approach problems in my opinion. Newton, probably the greatest human mind of all time, insisted that God was responsible for holding the planets in orbit because he couldnt work out the incredibly difficult math. We now know the math of course, but we wouldnt if everyone just though “Well, I guess God does it. End of story.”

[quote]imhungry wrote:
Tumbles wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
wtf?

how is evolution a fact, theres black people and white people. there were no white people 80,000 years ago.

God created the master race after realizing our colored brethren were a second-rate creature.

'scuse me?[/quote]

I just keep thinking about the shortbus glasses comment… lol

Now that you have concluded from the similarity of a gas pump to a penis and a gas tank to a vagina, regarding complexity of life forms that “organic molecules simply fell into place according to where the laws of physics told them to go” and your gas tank example “destroys any lingering doubts that biological system are too complex to be explained by evolution,” perhaps you can explain to me how the laws of physics told molecules where to go such that, for example:

While having parents that both had two-chambered hearts and corresponding circulatory and respiratory systems that interfaced perfectly with those hearts, molecules were told how to re-arrange for one or more of the offspring so that DNA now coded for new proteins that resulted (how? explain the mechanism) in an offspring with a three-chambered heart, fully functional the first time right off the bat and well interfaced, necessarily differently, with the circulatory and respiratory systems.

And how the laws of physics told molecules how to successfully carry these necessarily quite complex (as the change is quite complex) DNA changes on to future generations, as this was the only creature on the planet at this time with the 3-chambered heart.

I mean, obviously what with the gas pump and the gas tank you’ve proven this… I just would appreciate the explanation that gives at least some degree of detail or at least plausibility?

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Now that you have concluded from the similarity of a gas pump to a penis and a gas tank to a vagina, regarding complexity of life forms that “organic molecules simply fell into place according to where the laws of physics told them to go” and your gas tank example “destroys any lingering doubts that biological system are too complex to be explained by evolution,” perhaps you can explain to me how the laws of physics told molecules where to go such that, for example:

While having parents that both had two-chambered hearts and corresponding circulatory and respiratory systems that interfaced perfectly with those hearts, molecules were told how to re-arrange for one or more of the offspring so that DNA now coded for new proteins that resulted (how? explain the mechanism) in an offspring with a three-chambered heart, fully functional the first time right off the bat and well interfaced, necessarily differently, with the circulatory and respiratory systems.

And how the laws of physics told molecules how to successfully carry these necessarily quite complex (as the change is quite complex) DNA changes on to future generations, as this was the only creature on the planet at this time with the 3-chambered heart.

I mean, obviously what with the gas pump and the gas tank you’ve proven this… I just would appreciate the explanation that gives at least some degree of detail or at least plausibility?[/quote]

Good post!

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Now that you have concluded from the similarity of a gas pump to a penis and a gas tank to a vagina, regarding complexity of life forms that “organic molecules simply fell into place according to where the laws of physics told them to go” and your gas tank example “destroys any lingering doubts that biological system are too complex to be explained by evolution,” perhaps you can explain to me how the laws of physics told molecules where to go such that, for example:

While having parents that both had two-chambered hearts and corresponding circulatory and respiratory systems that interfaced perfectly with those hearts, molecules were told how to re-arrange for one or more of the offspring so that DNA now coded for new proteins that resulted (how? explain the mechanism) in an offspring with a three-chambered heart, fully functional the first time right off the bat and well interfaced, necessarily differently, with the circulatory and respiratory systems.

And how the laws of physics told molecules how to successfully carry these necessarily quite complex (as the change is quite complex) DNA changes on to future generations, as this was the only creature on the planet at this time with the 3-chambered heart.

I mean, obviously what with the gas pump and the gas tank you’ve proven this… I just would appreciate the explanation that gives at least some degree of detail or at least plausibility?[/quote]

Oh, that’s simple; God did it.

Then what does the vacuum cleaner with the spinny thingy explain?

My guess is Aliens!

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
Synthetickiller wrote:
LOL @ natural law! Same reason New Orleans flooded after Katrina, but God wanted to clean out the corruption. Funny thing is, the French Quarter never flooded, but a lot of churches did! Ironic.

Counter argument: God saw where the corruption really is.

Also, that’s not irony.[/quote]

QF Emphasis.

^^^ Good article on simple eyes.

Jellyfish have EYES!

They’re very simple, and yes they could easily have evolved. Environmental demand could necessitate the production of organisms with more complex eyes developed from these basic models to serve a “market” niche in the ecosystem.

Evolution and economics are one and the same.

ElbowStrike

[quote]Otep wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
Now that you have concluded from the similarity of a gas pump to a penis and a gas tank to a vagina, regarding complexity of life forms that “organic molecules simply fell into place according to where the laws of physics told them to go” and your gas tank example “destroys any lingering doubts that biological system are too complex to be explained by evolution,” perhaps you can explain to me how the laws of physics told molecules where to go such that, for example:

While having parents that both had two-chambered hearts and corresponding circulatory and respiratory systems that interfaced perfectly with those hearts, molecules were told how to re-arrange for one or more of the offspring so that DNA now coded for new proteins that resulted (how? explain the mechanism) in an offspring with a three-chambered heart, fully functional the first time right off the bat and well interfaced, necessarily differently, with the circulatory and respiratory systems.

And how the laws of physics told molecules how to successfully carry these necessarily quite complex (as the change is quite complex) DNA changes on to future generations, as this was the only creature on the planet at this time with the 3-chambered heart.

I mean, obviously what with the gas pump and the gas tank you’ve proven this… I just would appreciate the explanation that gives at least some degree of detail or at least plausibility?

Oh, that’s simple; God did it.[/quote]

Ehm, wrong. The fuzzy pink unicorn did it.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Now that you have concluded from the similarity of a gas pump to a penis and a gas tank to a vagina, regarding complexity of life forms that “organic molecules simply fell into place according to where the laws of physics told them to go” and your gas tank example “destroys any lingering doubts that biological system are too complex to be explained by evolution,” perhaps you can explain to me how the laws of physics told molecules where to go such that, for example:

While having parents that both had two-chambered hearts and corresponding circulatory and respiratory systems that interfaced perfectly with those hearts, molecules were told how to re-arrange for one or more of the offspring so that DNA now coded for new proteins that resulted (how? explain the mechanism) in an offspring with a three-chambered heart, fully functional the first time right off the bat and well interfaced, necessarily differently, with the circulatory and respiratory systems.

And how the laws of physics told molecules how to successfully carry these necessarily quite complex (as the change is quite complex) DNA changes on to future generations, as this was the only creature on the planet at this time with the 3-chambered heart.

I mean, obviously what with the gas pump and the gas tank you’ve proven this… I just would appreciate the explanation that gives at least some degree of detail or at least plausibility?[/quote]

I dont think physics had anything to do with it really… These would be more likely described by the findings of biology.

I’m having a hard time gathering what the spirit of this post was supposed to be. Surely a science guy such as Bill Roberts does not thumb his nose at evolution? Say it aint so Bill.

I wont even pretend I have the education to answer your question, I do not. However, I think a google search might be your best place to ask for that type of answer, and it will probably involve some fairly heavy reading.