T Nation

I Love Nancy Pelosi

It’s amazing how many outlandish comments this woman has made since she became speaker. Let’s recall upon some of her greatest moments(by greatest I mean hilarious and bat sh*t crazy). I think it’s important to keep track of our representative’s comments and actions so we can inform people of their true character come reelection time. Here’s the latest.

lol, @ paying people to not work being a job creator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKrBvmVw5-g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVnxwSgtL7Y

She is one of very few in the current crop of national politicians that I really don’t think is that intelligent. She’s not an idiot and she has legislative skills, but what other explanation is possible for some of the truly goofy things she comes up with than she’s just not an analytical thinker.

pelosi refuted in one sentence:

unemployment provides income for life’s necessities, which by default are goods/services provided by jobs already in place and already filled.

thus no new job creation by unemployment . . . .

[quote]AdamDrew wrote:
It’s amazing how many outlandish comments this woman has made since she became speaker. Let’s recall upon some of her greatest moments(by greatest I mean hilarious and bat sh*t crazy). I think it’s important to keep track of our representative’s comments and actions so we can inform people of their true character come reelection time. Here’s the latest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdAj8zui6ss[/quote]

I cant see why this is crazy talk.

she is right, welfare checks to people who have lost jobs will help getting the demand up wich in turn
helps business. If they dont give them cash, less people will be demanding services and things that business`s provide. less demand equals less money to stores, warhouses etc and it will result in more people fired and even less demand. It will have catastrophic results for the economy and it will make the crisis more severe and longer lasting.

[quote]florelius wrote:
she is right, welfare checks to people who have lost jobs will help getting the demand up wich in turn helps business.[/quote]

Income comes from productive people. By definition unemployment means one is not productive so where must their income come from?

It is not demand that helps business but rather that people have an income and are productive.

In a productive society wealth is created and exchanged which is really how society flourishes – not because humans have a need to consume but rather because they have an ability to produce.

[quote]florelius wrote:

I cant see why this is crazy talk.

she is right, welfare checks to people who have lost jobs will help getting the demand up wich in turn
helps business. If they dont give them cash, less people will be demanding services and things that business`s provide. less demand equals less money to stores, warhouses etc and it will result in more people fired and even less demand. It will have catastrophic results for the economy and it will make the crisis more severe and longer lasting.[/quote]

because you are misunderstanding the basline. These were goods and services already in play, already being provided. Welfare provides the ability to continue meeting your basic bills, but it does not create the demand for new goods and services and thus new jobs. A more/less rationale argument could be made that welfare prevents additional job loss in the basic necessity goods/services industry, but there is no valid argument here that welfare creates new jobs by creating new demands for new goods or services.

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]AdamDrew wrote:
It’s amazing how many outlandish comments this woman has made since she became speaker. Let’s recall upon some of her greatest moments(by greatest I mean hilarious and bat sh*t crazy). I think it’s important to keep track of our representative’s comments and actions so we can inform people of their true character come reelection time. Here’s the latest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdAj8zui6ss[/quote]

I cant see why this is crazy talk.

she is right, welfare checks to people who have lost jobs will help getting the demand up wich in turn
helps business. If they dont give them cash, less people will be demanding services and things that business`s provide. less demand equals less money to stores, warhouses etc and it will result in more people fired and even less demand. It will have catastrophic results for the economy and it will make the crisis more severe and longer lasting.[/quote]

So everyone should quit their job and get on unemployment, that would create a booming economy right? People like you are the reason this shit lingers for as long as it does. You have no clue about jack shit but think and speak like you know what the hell you are talking about.

[quote]dk44 wrote:

So everyone should quit their job and get on unemployment, that would create a booming economy right? People like you are the reason this shit lingers for as long as it does. You have no clue about jack shit but think and speak like you know what the hell you are talking about.[/quote]

But Europeans are so much more enlightened than us!

[quote]AdamDrew wrote:
It’s amazing how many outlandish comments this woman has made since she became speaker. Let’s recall upon some of her greatest moments(by greatest I mean hilarious and bat sh*t crazy). I think it’s important to keep track of our representative’s comments and actions so we can inform people of their true character come reelection time. Here’s the latest.
[/quote]

I hate when they play her clips on the news or anywhere because she says some totally ridiculous things. Problem is, alot of people seem to agree with or believe the crap she spews.

So everyone should quit their job and get on unemployment, that would create a booming economy right? People like you are the reason this shit lingers for as long as it does. You have no clue about jack shit but think and speak like you know what the hell you are talking about.[/quote]

quit making strawmen. I never said that everyone should quit their jobs. get real dude.

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

I cant see why this is crazy talk.

she is right, welfare checks to people who have lost jobs will help getting the demand up wich in turn
helps business. If they dont give them cash, less people will be demanding services and things that business`s provide. less demand equals less money to stores, warhouses etc and it will result in more people fired and even less demand. It will have catastrophic results for the economy and it will make the crisis more severe and longer lasting.[/quote]

because you are misunderstanding the basline. These were goods and services already in play, already being provided. Welfare provides the ability to continue meeting your basic bills, but it does not create the demand for new goods and services and thus new jobs. A more/less rationale argument could be made that welfare prevents additional job loss in the basic necessity goods/services industry, but there is no valid argument here that welfare creates new jobs by creating new demands for new goods or services.[/quote]

I did not meen that giving people cash creates demand, because the demand for housing, food, clothes etc are allready there. but when people lose jobs in a crisis, they also lose the ability to clame their demand. This thus hurt the economy, if a large group of the population are not able to participate in market it will hurt the market and more people will lose their jobs untill the economy crasher totally.
state intervantion is necessary when we have such an unstable system as an market economy, the state makes it stable.

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]AdamDrew wrote:
It’s amazing how many outlandish comments this woman has made since she became speaker. Let’s recall upon some of her greatest moments(by greatest I mean hilarious and bat sh*t crazy). I think it’s important to keep track of our representative’s comments and actions so we can inform people of their true character come reelection time. Here’s the latest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdAj8zui6ss[/quote]

I cant see why this is crazy talk.

she is right, welfare checks to people who have lost jobs will help getting the demand up wich in turn
helps business. If they dont give them cash, less people will be demanding services and things that business`s provide. less demand equals less money to stores, warhouses etc and it will result in more people fired and even less demand. It will have catastrophic results for the economy and it will make the crisis more severe and longer lasting.[/quote]

So everyone should quit their job and get on unemployment, that would create a booming economy right? People like you are the reason this shit lingers for as long as it does. You have no clue about jack shit but think and speak like you know what the hell you are talking about.[/quote]

The problem is that the video is mislabeled.

Ms. Pelosi never said anything to the effect of ‘unemployment creates jobs’ (Or rather, not in the clip). Instead, she’s inferring that THE STIMULUS creates jobs, and that THE STIMULUS is a largesse given to the unemployed.

Technically speaking, giving everyone a stimulus check will raise the demand curve for many goods and services in the short run. Obviously this has negative long run effects.

But to the Keynesian, in the long run we are all dead.

While I certainly agree that Pelosi is lacking in the intelligence department, what she is trying to say in that video is true. Millions of people have lost their jobs and therefore have no income (aka money to spend). Businesses are laying off employees because demand for products and services have decreased.

The point of stimulus spending is to “stimulate” the economy and poor people spend virtually all of their income. If you give a million dollars to poor people then you will have a million dollars in spending aka demand (it actually ends up bringing more than a million in demand because that spending will in turn get spent again). On the other hand if you give a million dollars to relatively wealthy people (aka Bush tax cuts) they would probably save at least some of it which means that a million in stimulus spending would result in less than a million in demand. What I think Pelosi was trying to say is that you literally get more bang for your buck by spending on unemployment rather than in other ways.

Now there’s also moral and societal aspects to consider. There is certainly substance to the argument that unemployment compensation leads to more poverty, but under the circumstances facing our country right now it is one of the best ways to create demand.

[quote]Otep wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]AdamDrew wrote:
It’s amazing how many outlandish comments this woman has made since she became speaker. Let’s recall upon some of her greatest moments(by greatest I mean hilarious and bat sh*t crazy). I think it’s important to keep track of our representative’s comments and actions so we can inform people of their true character come reelection time. Here’s the latest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdAj8zui6ss[/quote]

I cant see why this is crazy talk.

she is right, welfare checks to people who have lost jobs will help getting the demand up wich in turn
helps business. If they dont give them cash, less people will be demanding services and things that business`s provide. less demand equals less money to stores, warhouses etc and it will result in more people fired and even less demand. It will have catastrophic results for the economy and it will make the crisis more severe and longer lasting.[/quote]

So everyone should quit their job and get on unemployment, that would create a booming economy right? People like you are the reason this shit lingers for as long as it does. You have no clue about jack shit but think and speak like you know what the hell you are talking about.[/quote]

The problem is that the video is mislabeled.

Ms. Pelosi never said anything to the effect of ‘unemployment creates jobs’ (Or rather, not in the clip). Instead, she’s inferring that THE STIMULUS creates jobs, and that THE STIMULUS is a largesse given to the unemployed.

Technically speaking, giving everyone a stimulus check will raise the demand curve for many goods and services in the short run. Obviously this has negative long run effects.

But to the Keynesian, in the long run we are all dead.[/quote]

how is it bad in long run effects?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574440723298786310.html

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Otep wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]AdamDrew wrote:
It’s amazing how many outlandish comments this woman has made since she became speaker. Let’s recall upon some of her greatest moments(by greatest I mean hilarious and bat sh*t crazy). I think it’s important to keep track of our representative’s comments and actions so we can inform people of their true character come reelection time. Here’s the latest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdAj8zui6ss[/quote]

I cant see why this is crazy talk.

she is right, welfare checks to people who have lost jobs will help getting the demand up wich in turn
helps business. If they dont give them cash, less people will be demanding services and things that business`s provide. less demand equals less money to stores, warhouses etc and it will result in more people fired and even less demand. It will have catastrophic results for the economy and it will make the crisis more severe and longer lasting.[/quote]

So everyone should quit their job and get on unemployment, that would create a booming economy right? People like you are the reason this shit lingers for as long as it does. You have no clue about jack shit but think and speak like you know what the hell you are talking about.[/quote]

The problem is that the video is mislabeled.

Ms. Pelosi never said anything to the effect of ‘unemployment creates jobs’ (Or rather, not in the clip). Instead, she’s inferring that THE STIMULUS creates jobs, and that THE STIMULUS is a largesse given to the unemployed.

Technically speaking, giving everyone a stimulus check will raise the demand curve for many goods and services in the short run. Obviously this has negative long run effects.

But to the Keynesian, in the long run we are all dead.[/quote]

how is it bad in long run effects?
[/quote]

Two answers.

  1. To Keynes, government should spend during a recession and save during a boom. Government (specifically America’s government) has had a serious problem with the latter part of this.

  2. Broken window fallacy- the money the government spent on stimulus (and thus has to recoup later through taxes) should have been spent by its original owner to send correct market signals to producers and thus increase transparency and productivity in the market.

otep: could you expand on “the broken window fallacy” a bit?

I did not understand from your answer why there will be negative longturn effects, thats why
I ask if you could expand on it.