T Nation

I Love American Justice

I love America. Edgar Ray Killen receives a sixty year sentence for three counts of manslaughter. Do you know what he would have received in Canada? Four years. I would bet money on that. It wouldn’t have mattered that there were three separate convictions either, since all three killings happened at once the sentences would be served concurrently, rather than consecutively. Since he is elderly and would not be considered a risk to re-offend his jail time would likely be served in a minimum security housing unit with no locks or bars and he would be eligible for unescorted temporary day passes to spend time with his wife. He would be eligible to apply for probation after 1 year and four months and would likely receive it if he had been on good behavior in prison. If for any reason he was turned down for probation our statutory release law would mandate him out of jail in two and a half years.

If you were an American, busting on the US in this way, you’d be told many times in here to get out if you don’t like it.

Anyway, that’s what we need, to convince Americans that Canada is evil in this way too… letting criminals run rampant and so on. Ha!

Didn’t he kill three people? I’d be pissed if they let someone who intentionally killed people spend only 4 years in the can. Who fucking cares if he’s old?

He can be someone’s girlfriend just like a young guy could. Lets not age discriminate here.

Vroom vroom vroom

Are you suggesting that I should keep this dirty little Canadian secret to myself simply because the members of this board already have plenty of reasons to think our country is messed up?

This happens to be a very important issue and I don’t see why I shouldn’t talk about it.

Skin color played a huge part in this trial. Had the victims been KKKers, the case would have been lost in the bottom of the file cabinet years ago.

Don’t get me wrong, I think he got off easy. He could have gotten up to 180 years if I heard the judge correctly this morning.

But if you think this case was strictly about the killing of three people, you are mistaken.

[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Didn’t he kill three people? I’d be pissed if they let someone who intentionally killed people spend only 4 years in the can. Who fucking cares if he’s old?

He can be someone’s girlfriend just like a young guy could. Lets not age discriminate here.[/quote]

Oh, were pretty happy here when killers get jail time at all. In 2003 20% of all homicide convictions resulted in probation or a conditional sentence, a conditional sentence being a sentence served entirely in the community.

The reason? Punishment is mean and locking people up is expensive.

I’m sorry Rain, JPBear is my T-Nation pen pal.

JeffR

JP,

The only problem is, your post is pure conjecture. Upon that conjecture, you then draw what are obviously negative conclusions.

It’s a crock.

Pick out some of the real problems, and point them out. Creating a problem, when there is none, because you assume it would turn out a certain way, isn’t very useful.

I’m guessing you won’t have a hard time finding plenty of examples of how things are pooched.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Skin color played a huge part in this trial. Had the victims been KKKers, the case would have been lost in the bottom of the file cabinet years ago.

Don’t get me wrong, I think he got off easy. He could have gotten up to 180 years if I heard the judge correctly this morning.

But if you think this case was strictly about the killing of three people, you are mistaken. [/quote]

I wasn’t really commenting on the case Rainjack, more the fact that a sentence of that length exists. That is unheard of here.

We don’t hand out sentences in years like that. Manslaughter convictions rarely result in much jail time at all, a few years maybe. A ten year sentence would be extremely rare, and even then the convict could potentially be out in just over three years and would be mandated out in six and a half. Murder convictions receive automatic life sentences (we don’t have the death penalty). A life sentence does not mean life imprisonment; it means a life of involvement with corrections Canada. In fact, 40% of those presently serving life sentences for murder are serving them in the community.

The amount of time a murderer must wait to apply for probation is set by the judge and can range anywhere from five years to twenty five years for the worst offenders. But even those who must wait twenty five years can apply for early probation consideration after 15.

[quote]JeffR wrote:
I’m sorry Rain, JPBear is my T-Nation pen pal.

JeffR

[/quote]

You can write her all you want. Just know that I am bigger and stronger than you are.

Additionally, my sarcastic humor, and endearing smile leaves you with little more than a fantasy of what might be.

JPBear is mine, and I’m not sharing.

Hey Jeff, when are you going to help us get work Visas so we can come live down there?

I wasn’t directing that at you, JP. It was pretty much just an unsolicited observation.

[quote]JPBear wrote:
Hey Jeff, when are you going to help us get work Visas so we can come live down there? [/quote]

JP you can come down anytime.

Criminals belong in prison and murderers have given up their right to freedom. Sorry that’s not the Canadian way.

Looks like Canada has it wrong again. I mean compare the amount of murders, homicides, violent crime and rape in that shitty little country. That bastard would get only 4 years prison, look how that country turned out, its crime capital of the world.

Our good American justice, 4000 people on death row, over 2 million in prison, over 6 times more reported crimes each year than the next highest country, 10 000 gun related deaths per year vs 50-100 in any other western nation.

God Bless America

[quote]JPBear wrote:
I love America. Edgar Ray Killen receives a sixty year sentence for three counts of manslaughter. Do you know what he would have received in Canada? Four years. I would bet money on that. It wouldn’t have mattered that there were three separate convictions either, since all three killings happened at once the sentences would be served concurrently, rather than consecutively. Since he is elderly and would not be considered a risk to re-offend his jail time would likely be served in a minimum security housing unit with no locks or bars and he would be eligible for unescorted temporary day passes to spend time with his wife. He would be eligible to apply for probation after 1 year and four months and would likely receive it if he had been on good behavior in prison. If for any reason he was turned down for probation our statutory release law would mandate him out of jail in two and a half years. [/quote]

What is your point? That Canada has absolutely no idea to what extent race hatred grew in the south before the Civil Rights movement? That Canada doesn’t understand the damage to society during that time period that many would argue we are still recovering from?

This case isn’t just about killing 3 people. Your entire post seemed to purposefully ignore history as if that had nothing to do with this. Again, what was the point of your post other than showing that you didn’t grasp the gravity of the circumstances?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
What is your point? That Canada has absolutely no idea to what extent race hatred grew in the south before the Civil Rights movement? That Canada doesn’t understand the damage to society during that time period that many would argue we are still recovering from?

This case isn’t just about killing 3 people. Your entire post seemed to purposefully ignore history as if that had nothing to do with this. Again, what was the point of your post other than showing that you didn’t grasp the gravity of the circumstances?[/quote]

I think her point was that had this happened in Canada, regardless of the racial overtones in the case, the killer would not have been punished to the extent that he was here in the U.S. this morning.

[quote]rainjack wrote:

I think her point was that had this happened in Canada, regardless of the racial overtones in the case, the killer would not have been punished to the extent that he was here in the U.S. this morning. [/quote]

So then, the point is that Canada is full of shit?

OOoh 40 60 80 180 years in Jail… as if the guy is gonna be alive more than a few years anyway.

Your comments amount to congradulating the US on talking bigger numbers.

Had this happened in Canada maybe he wouldn’t have been free till he was 80 years old.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

So then, the point is that Canada is full of shit?[/quote]

Yes, basically that is the point. I obviously shouldn’t have picked a case that has so much baggage attached to it in order to make my point. I’m sorry if I offended you.

I’m working on a contract right now for a group that has been working towards justice reform in Canada for the last 10 years and I have been elbow deep in story after story of convicted killers and child molesters getting off with a slap on the wrist. I believe sentences should have a punitive aspect to them but that concept is completely out of vogue up here. After looking at these cases all day I went to cnn.com and saw the 60 year jail sentence. I don’t think I can even explain to you how different that is. It really would not matter how notorious or divisive the case was, a sentence like that simply does not exist up here. I see news headlines like that all the time, so there is no real reason why I choose to post about that one. I wasn’t trying to single it out. It is just representative of an entirely different mindset when it comes to justice, even though many Americans would look at that case and say justice was not served. I hope that makes sense.

[quote]ConorM wrote:
Looks like Canada has it wrong again. I mean compare the amount of murders, homicides, violent crime and rape in that shitty little country. That bastard would get only 4 years prison, look how that country turned out, its crime capital of the world.

Our good American justice, 4000 people on death row, over 2 million in prison, over 6 times more reported crimes each year than the next highest country, 10 000 gun related deaths per year vs 50-100 in any other western nation.

God Bless America[/quote]

The US crime rate is 81.55/1000 people the Canadian rate is 76.89/1000 people. Where the difference lies is actually in victimless crime. The US drug crime rate is twice that of ours. Violent crime and property crime rates are similar. I don’t know where you got your reported crime statistic but it doesn’t match my figures. Adult prosecutions as a percentage of crimes reported stands at nearly 60% in the US. The same statistic in Canada? A mere 15%. So when you consider crime rates are based on convictions something doesn’t really add up does it?