T Nation

I just got my ass handed to me....

I did. Pretty hard too. I’m walking back to the car with my friends and some big fucker shoves some other bigger fucker into me and I get knocked into this other fucker. The fucker I get shoved into shoves me back and I slam into big fucker number 2. Now, I’m not a small guy by any means, 200 pounds at 15%. I’m squating in the 400s and benching the 300s. Not impressive by a T-man’s standards but not a small little bitch.

So, when I’m shoved back I tense up and try to get the hell out of the situation. The adrenline is rushing and the next thing I know I’ve somehow slamed a guys who is about 275 into a window. He retailates and throws me to the ground. The guy seriously treated me like a 200 pound rag doll. He starts shouting, “I’m not afraid of going to jail again of you!” He starts kicking me in the ribs and I tearing in to me. I see my friends jump all over these guys trying to get me out but I’m still receiving blow after blow. Eventually, I get about a half a second gap, jump up and sprint the fuck out of there (thanks CT for the Running Man program!).

Anyways, this was a huge reality check if anything. I’ve never really been in a fight. I’m 24 never really thrown a punch but have thought I’m at least a tough bastard. But tonight, I failed. I was nothing. Guys bigger than me tossed me around like I was nothing. I don’t like this. I don’t like this at all. It’s not the physical beating at all. I’ve got some nice cuts and bruises but they will go away. I am REALLY UPSET THAT THIS HAPPENED AND I WAS NOTHING. I got tossed like a little 90 pound bitch and I think I put up a huge fight. I did everything that I could but was nothing.

So I need to learn from this. But how? I’m not strong, I’m weak. So it goes. I need to be stronger. I need to be faster. I need to be better. But what else? Fuck that cutting cycle I was going to start on for summer abs. I wanna be hyooge, but how do I learn to fight? How do I get better? I could I have gotten out this without the kicks to the ribs? I failed big time in this situation and feel about as small and worthless as I ever have. All the effort in the gym and with the diet and I still got me ass kick. This will never happen again.

Wow, take it easy on yourself. First of all understand one thing up front: No matter how big and tough you are there is always someone bigger and tougher. Looks like you met up with him!

Secondly, you probably lost this fight, not because the guy was all that stronger, but because you didn’t know what to do. Is that possible? The other way I am reading it is that you were not even sure you were in a fight until you were on the ground. Hard to tell from your post. Either way, you were not prepared for this sort of confrontation.

Two suggestions for you. You said you have never been in a fight before. It showed! Most fights that take place in, or around bars, happen fast and usually for not much of a reason. If you are going to hang around places like that, be ready-I really don’t think you were.

Now I have an assignment for you today, not tomorrow. Wile the beating is still fresh in your mind, find a good school for grappling! Don’t go to a traditional martial arts school where you learn kata, and play spar.

Find a place that will teach you how to grapple using the weight and power that you do have to your advantage. I suggest Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu if possible. If not then any grappling would suffice such as, Wrestling or Judo.

If there is no way you can hook up with a good grappling school then I suggest that you go to a Boxing gym. With Boxing, as opposed to traditional martial arts, you actually get to hit, and be hit! This will help immensely. It will give you the experience that you lack.

If you can find a place where you can actually grapple and strike that is the best case scenario! As you may know mixed martial arts is becoming very popular. Any school that specializes in this would be most helpful.

Finally, pick your chin up off the ground. Everybody who plays that game eventually loses. The single best defensive move I have ever seen. One that has never failed, is simply not being there! If you don’t hang out with drunken tough guys I guarantee that none of them will throw you on the ground and dance the cha cha on your head.

Good Luck,

Zeb

Why did this fight start? Sounded kinda random from your description. Also, size doesn’t matter. Carry yourself a blackjack or something and you’ll win every fight.

There will always be someone “bigger” than you out there…You gotta fight smarter…

Dude, you need to get a grip. Shit happens. Unless you are going to get into mixed martial arts full time and street fights on weekends, your time and personal safety would be better spent planning how to avoid those situations. Life isn’t like Hollywood.

Sweating it at the gym does not make one a tough bastard; fighting experience does that.

Gym strength does not equal “real world” strength. Get yourself an army duffel bag and fill it w/ 200 pounds of sand and gravel. Lift it, carry it, heave it and maybe you can treat guys like ragdolls.
You came out of the scrap w/out any major wounds, I’d shake it off. Remember how weak and helpless you felt that night before each workout and see if it doesn’t help fire you up.

First of all…shake it off… your young and you just got your ego bruised a little. It was a cheap and relatively harmless lesson and you’ll get over it.
Second, as ZEB mentioned, no matter how big and good you get, there will always be someone bigger and gooderer (yes that’s a word) who can send you home with your ass in a bag.
Third, Size matters…plain and simple. All things being equal, bigger people hurt smaller people much easier.
Learning some MMA is a great start, but I won’t say too much about it as the subject’s been talked to death on this forum. However make sure you learn some striking skill as going to the ground on the street with a dude’s buddies hangin’ round is a quick way to get your head caved in from a boot or two.
The biggest factor in who wins a fight on the street is usually who’s “there” quickest. It’s so much more about emotional response than anything else. If someones amygdala is pumping brain signals to attack and your not even sure what’s going on…your done no matter what you know. You gotta either bail out and run or flick the switch and engage fast and hard with no thought to consequence. It’s full commitment to either fight or flight…choose one and do it full out. I always suggest flight over fight unless a loved ones are threatened.

That SUCKS bro. I’ve been jumped before by 5-6+ people so I can sort of relate. However like zeb said, you need to take it easy on yourself. You’re going to want some sort of payback for awhile but you need to let that pass. Try to look at it this way. The guy you fought with most likely judging by what he said and did has done time, probably for some violent crime. You have admitted to never having fought anyone in your life. The guy you fought outweighed you by close to 100 lbs. See where I’m going here. Have you ever had to stick your fingers in someones eyesocket, or punch someonce in the throat as hard as you can? No. Furthermore if you did would you like it? Would you kinda get off on it? Probably not. You encountered someone on a whole different level of disfunctionality and there no way you could have been prepared unless you yourself were as fucked up as your assailant. You didn’t fail because that’s not what you’re about. BTW this kinda sounds like the cops should get involved, that or you, 3 friends, 4 blackjacks, and 4 ski masks. JMO. Hope you feel better bro, and I know how you feel.

I’m still not sure how it happened. I have no idea who these people where.

Guy A pushed guy B who was knocked into me. I was knocked into C. C pushed me back into B and then back into A and it just escalated from there. I believe C got the hell out and A and B knew each other, so I became the bad guy and both A and B (who where damn big, I mean really damn big) decided that I need a little physical love.

I’m settled down and not so pissed off at myself. I’ve always been proud to never have been in a fight but thought that I could at least stick up for myself if one happened. Wow, did that not happened. If it weren’t for my friends, I might be in a hell of a lot more pain and most likely jail right now. I guess lifting won’t get you laid or allow you win a fight.

Zeb, after typing this I am going to hunt out a place to grapple. I don’t want to learn how to hand someone their ass, but at least be able to protect my own. Thanks for the advice.

Take it from a older small guy who spent a lot of his younger years fending off ass kickings from huge bullies and ten years in martial arts, LEARNING HOW TO STAY OUT OF THESE SITUATIONS AND GETTING THE HELL OUT OF THERE WHEN THEY GO SOUTH SHOULD BE YOUR PRIMARY OBJECTIVE. ALWAYS.
Getting into it with someone, becuase you think you can handle yourself and then taking a ride with the cops or to the hosiptal ain’t brave.
A lot of it will come from gaining a better awareness of who and what is going on around you and being prepared for any “just in case” situation.

When that fails, your stuck in the middle or someone else is at risk (family, whatever)and there is no where to run, you better no how to protect yourself and end things quickly.

As my father taught me, “we don’t start fights with people but we will end them”.

Half hour movie fights are fun to watch but exceptionally laughable in the real world. Anyone who has studied any sort of hand-to-hand combat or self defense will tell you that getting into a grappling match in the parking lot or boxing with some idiot will just get you hurt or worse, dead. You learn (especially when you are smaller) how to take someone down quickly and brutally, without silly notions of “fairness”. Hitting the most sensitive parts of a body: groin, throat, kidney, knees. You apply enough violent force in one shot to any of these areas and I don’t care how big he is, he’s going down.

If you are really serious, get formal instruction from a respected source.

Just remember, there always seem to be consequences when the “good guys” walk away on top. Just the way things work.

But that is just opinion based on 30 years of personal experience, that has included some sickening brawls I wish I had never been a part of.

Nobody wins a fight. Someone just gets a little bloodier.

Take care of yourself man.

Yeah Nitrox…I was thinking the same thing. IF one is going to “carouse” in places like Benz is talking about…packing “legal heat” is the way to go.
I do think ZEB’s advice was also pretty darn good!

“Nobody wins a fight” - Survive, yes, win-no.

Packing weapons is not a good idea.

As an MMA teacher once remarked, if your getting into street brawls, then you need to correct your lifestyle & attitude first. Thats the smartest defense.

That said, find a good grappling school. Then you’ll be too tired to be hanging out and getting into shit.

My grandfather was a professional boxer. He taught all the boys how to box, but not just box but how to fight. My dad passed some of that on to me. One thing is never let him get ahold of you, especially if he’s bigger. Don’t start with shoving, a punch to the nose/mouth is far better if you want to win the thing. Don’t hit the guy once and look for a response. Nail the shit out of him with a few punches, then grab his shirt and continue to rain solid hits to his head until he goes down. Then don’t turn your back on him once he’s there.

My dad spent 20 years in the Navy and was in many street fights, a couple of gun fights, and some other altercations and is good at surviving. This isn’t news but fighting is dangerous, like life threatening and shouldn’t be engaged in lightly. If you can avoid it do so and if you can’t then fucking win the thing.

Common belief is that all fights go to the ground, and many do because neither guy is conscienciously trying to keep that from occuring. Most fights start with tussling and shoving too. A few good blows to the face/head, unlike on TV, tends to rattle most people and puts you in command of the situation. That’s why you skip the pushing shit and get to disabling the guy. Most real fights are over in about a minute although it seems like ten.

Learn how to street brawl. Start with kids you know you can kick their ass, then move up to seven year olds, after that young teens will do and finally start to fight people you’re age. You should win some of those haha. Im joking man.

I know wrestling is exaclty street fighting but before i lifted weights i could hbench 95 for 2x. And i was 200 pounds. And i went 17-5 that season. I wrestled big mofo’s too up to 260 lbs. Strength and fighting are two different things. If you know how to fight but can push little weight you still have better chances of kicking someones ass whose hayyyoge. Being strong and knowing how to fight = lose very litle fights, but still some.

My suggestion is to avoid fights. They dont solve anything. So what if you are going to beat someones ass. You’ll prolly feel bad for him in the end. Unless you’re a sick fuck. And after the fight this kid comes back with a gun, what are you going to do then? It’s not worth it. I used to brawl all the time, still do but only because my friends are stupid. You see some kid whose ass you kick and are all alone, you better belive you’re going to be scared when he rolls up on you with 4 guys pumpin’ heat. Drop it man.

If you want to learn to fight for defense though take some ju-jitsu or judo. When you CAN kick someones ass, you wont want to and you’ll only use it if you have to.

i can tell you about a similar experience i had in MMA class once. when i first started i was mounted on a guy and he was all covered up so i couldn’t hit him or bar him. the instructor yelled out “choke him with your hands”. I put my hands on his throat and nothing happened, it was like all my will and strength went limp. at that time i could not bring myself to strangle this guy with my bare hands.
about 3 months later something inside me changed. i got in the same position with the same guy and i choked him so hard his head looked like a big red baloon about to explode. Veins popped out of his head, he wiggled and whimperred and passed out in less then 3 seconds.
the key thing is that something inside me changed. i no longer felt uncomfortable with my hands on another persons throat. i no longer felt uncomfortable pulling the life out of another person with my bare hands.
if you want to take better care of yourself i think that it is just a matter of exposing yourself to real sparring and real situations. at first i could not even think that a nice guy like me could really fuck somebody up like that but because of exposure to that situation/violence, i became comfortable with it, and could control it. you just need the exposure, no different then me.
it explains why lots of kids in innercities are such hard fighters even without formal training. they are exposed to violence on a daily basis and are either killed by it or learn to become comfortable with it.

where are all the karate-beats-all posters. exactly, it doesn’t work in the real world. big guys will almost always win.

bedz, sorry to hear about that shit. yeah, avoiding that cutting cycle is a good idea.

Unfortunately this kind of stuff happens, if you want to get out of the situation as fast as possible just remember to go for the nuts and knees, it’s a cheap shot but gets you out very quickly.

Bedz,

There are many good posts here, and I am actually glad you got into the fight…it was a wake up call. I have been in many styles of martial arts and boxing my whole life, but, I hate fighting… it’s just that sometimes they find you.

The simple fact is this: our society has created laws so little people can shoot their mouths off, and not have to face up to waking a sleeping giant.

In the 50’s, the guys who needed a good ass kicking got it. Now, you get sued.

When you are in court, the judge and jury will never ask the one very important question: Did the guy deserve to get his ass beat? Was he being a little F’er? Did he hit his woman, and need to be beat senseless?
Never…

Our society is based on justice, but not really. A guy grabs your girl’s tits at the bar. In the present situation, there is really nothing to do… he might get bounced, but probably not. Try to bring that case to court, and see how far you get, but, if you take justice into your own hands, you will end up in jail and sued.

What he really needs to get his hands broken along with his jaw, a few ribs, and maybe your thumb jammed into his eyesocket…possibly an ear bitten off, or maybe a finger from each hand that grabbed her tits needs to be bitten off… maybe, depends on how much you feel for the girl…

This way, he may think thrice about grabbing a lady’s tis or ass… There will be a reminder… a corporal reminder.

The same situation goes for wife beaters, trash talking little pusses…the whole lot.

But, they will never be forced to respect another human… they have lost all fear of repurcussion.

Same really goes for little gang-bangers with guns… there is a thread on here about hard-core lyrics.

I literally laugh out loud when someone talks about shooting someone as being hard-core. Wrapping your hands around someone’s throat is hardcore, head-butting someone until they stop twitching is hard-core, biting a hunk of flesh out of someone’s face is hard-core (and, more difficult than you’d think) but shooting someone… please.

A 6 year old girl can shoot someone, if she wants to… simple. Just a bunch of scared little people hiding behind guns… hard-core…LMAO.

The truth is that our society dictates that your only recourse is to file charges and sue… be a pus.

Instead, you are a T-man, and realize that hey, I am little, and they were big, and all other things being equal, I will lose… especially because your situation seemed to give them the advantage of suprise…or preparation to fight. But, do not be hard on yourself… you said first off that you have never been in a fight before…

If you never had benched before, how well would you do? It is that simple.

That is why guys who bounce, or really fight do not take traditional martial arts as a sole form. In order to learn to fight, you must, well, fight. It is that simple… and you must be coached. The problem is, many “experts” at fighting (black belts), have never even been in a fight. So, you must be careful who, and what you choose. There were many suggestions for BJJ on this thread, and that is a good style, but not a complete one. If you would have tied a guy up and broght him to the ground, what would have happened…boot camp.

The reason why so many fights go to the ground is because they are two dopey drunk guys who are exactly like you: they don’t know how to fight. So, they go down as soon as they lock up.

I would recommend this: If you are serious about learning to fight, then do it as a conditioning tool…a change up to your training. Go a couple times a week. You may love it, or you may just keep it as a hobby. Will you be Jet Li or Frank Shamrock anytime soon…nope. But, you might have some ability to handle yourself if the situation ever comes up again.

You won’t be blocking jabs and trapping and limb destroying punches, but really, who does?

Soon, you might be able to throw a really nice punch combo, and maybe even some nice low-line kicks, or a door opener kick, and you might even learn to slip a jab and triangulate all other attacks. Then, maybe learning a couple throws, and a sprawl, and maybe some basic understanding of groundwork. As you saw, none of those guys was down on your chest…in real brawls, they just kick you…if they lock you up, your friends kick them, so they stay on their feet…as you should also.

I love UFC and Pride as much as the next guy, but I have seen too many guys go to the ground only to be taken to “the camp”. And, I have too many scars between my knuckles to ignore experience…

Bringing a guy down is sweet on the mat, but a big ugly drunken guy needs to be circled (possibly the most imporatnt thing), shin kicked with steel toed boots (a fight stopper in itself, ever see a 280 lb guy cry like a girl in public…hehe), jabbed (eye-jabbed), kicked in the nuts, and when the time is right, you must eventually close the distance, and elbow, knee, and headbutt that big-boy 'til his knees buckle. If you are in close quarters, F circling and go to work low-line and start working the elbows and butts.

Fighting most guys is a simple thing…most guys that get into fights are like you, except bigger. They are ex-football players who are still a bit amped up, and, think that fighting is pushing. The problem is, many ex-football player types can take a beating pretty well. That is why I recommend the elbows, knees and butts. Work that fat pony-keg right above their belt with your knee a few times, and all that rage drains out of them.

Anyway, if you want to learn to fight, then great, but, like anything else, you make great progress early, and then plateau unless sacrifice and discipline are embraced. So, don’t think that you are going to beat some ass instantly… you won’t. But, you might be better prepared the next time you have to protect someone…or yourself.

Things to look for in a MA school:

Muay Thai, Savate, BJJ, Sambo, Jeet Kun Do, boxing, certain forms of Kun Tao, and, make sure that when you go watch a class… people are getting hit if they mess up a block. You want to learn to kick some ass, not kick some air. TKD guys are the best in the world at kicking air, but, well…the rest is obvious…

Things to avoid: Any blocking where you reach out toward the attacking limb. This is great if you are a master, but, who is. Try traditional blocking versus a good boxer, and call me when you get out of the hospital. If you could rising block a jab, Ali would have been rising blocking like a mad-man. Avoid almost any school wearign Gi’s. I know this is a bold statement, but you don’t wear a Gi to the bar, you wear a T. If the instructor needs the extra honor of wearing a different colored belt than his students, then he has ego issues. He is there to teach, you are there to learn. I always bow and respect my instructors even though it isn’t required, but it is because they have earned respect… not because we do it as a ceremonial part of warm-up and cool-down. There are as many bad martial arts instructors as there are bad teachers. Would you bow to a crappy math teacher? Then why would you bow to a crappy martial arts teacher? Just a different subject.

Also, in lines of teachers, make sure the instruction is progressive. You can’t block combos until you can avoid the first punch. You can’t stay on your feet if you don’t know how to circle a bigger guy… simple logic.

I will let this rest now, but, I think we could help many people out here if we, as MMA people listed some very good, quality instructors from our areas… that might be a cool thread…

Just my .02

Coach H
CSCS

Very well put silverback. You make some very valid points. “Head butting someone till they stop twitching” I like that.

Coach H, good post!

Bedz, I agree w/ everyone else. Don’t get too hard on yourself. It’s easy to say what you’ll do in a situation vs what happens when you’re in it and taken by surprise.

Coach H made some great recommendations on finding a MA, and I wanted to add Krav Maga to the list. One of the training scenarios we’re taught in is fighting multiple attackers and it’s tough, no doubt about it. One of our recent drills had a 3 attacker scenario. One guy choked me from behind, another ran up to me from the front (he was holding a pad & I had to kick him away), then as soon as my hands went up to my neck for a choke defense, another guy came up for an attack. It looks easier to fight off a group in the movies, that’s for sure.

One of the things our instructors tells us is as soon as we take care of an attacker - run. Mainly 'cause you don’t know what’s coming next (gun, knife, more guys, etc) and you want to get out of the area ASAP.

Also, (echoing what was said in another post) while most people in my Krav class have wrestling/BJJ experience, they’ve stressed one of the places you don’t want to end up is on the ground, especially in a multiple attack scenario, since it can be too easy for a pile-on to occur.

I’d suggest to check and see if the MAs Coach H listed are around your area and watch a class or two. Talk to the instructors about what happened to you & see if what they teach is applicable to a ‘real world’ fight.

Again, don’t be too hard on yourself. You could’ve been injured so badly that you might have had some hospital time.

Silverback: fantastic advice overall especially concerning fighting a bigger man and staying off the ground. Eye jabs are a really effective tool especially if you’re faced with someone with a knife and you have no place to run. If you you can check the Knife with one hand while driving you fingertips into an eye or eyes…fights over…no strip neccessary. I would’nt totally discount training in a gi’ though. In many street fights somebody’s wearing a jacket which can be used very nicely for throws and chokes just as you would in a gi’. In fact even t-shirt neck band can be used for some very nice chokes.