T Nation

I Hit a Heavy Bag Today


let me preface this by saying this isn't something I usually do...
in like 10+ years

been on mats pretty much my whole life till I got older & brokenated

I moved to a suburb above NYC 3 years ago and switched towns to where we live now.
I no longer 'train' just weight room crap ( booooring) and there are a few HS/college kids who wrestle a few kids who box some BJJ types - seems like everyone right...
and one speeded out kid who plays judo
( he might be a post of his own comes to the gym in sweats and a seacrest shirt straight from doing dishes where ever he works)

these kids spot me
when I am doing mobility shit or warming up and do some tumbling
neck bridges cartwheels and shit occasionally the old as fuck judo tournament shirt

one kid I like allot- he wrestles for this town at heavyweight weighs like 230
I was fucking around with a trx and he was doing bear crawls with a sled loaded up.
gotta like a kid like that.

fast forward - one or two of the kids ask me about wresling/judo and when I say college was like 20 years ago - they then ask a million questions about training etc
the joys of delayed puberty- you look youthful even when banged up.

so one kid who boxes , kick boxes etc and actually competes asked about front squats and we spoke about that a little bit today I was doing something right near where the heavy bag is
and he goads me into hitting the bag with him-

so first he demonstrates very basic 1-2 1-1-2 and 1-2-3
can I say BASIC
then he gets me to do it.
when did I get so slooooow and soooo white

his are like 1212121121212 112112112 123123 1235
mine are like 1


we worked with 'pads' his hands and then moved to the heavy bag.
very soon he had me moving better and with better speed

he felt I had decent rotation and knew how to sit in my punches
and timing- but the rhythm is off.
like not even there
I cant handle the riddim
surprisingly this felt good- on my shoulders- where in the past its felt awful


It's not as hellish on the shoulders as you might think. I think it's way less stressful than lifting heavy.

You gonna keep it up or was that a one-of?


no - its not...
I'd keep it up.

I imaging doing this with a stopwatch would be fun as fuck

not rolling - and just lifting and blasting the rowing machine get boring as hell
certainly healthier then most lifting might be for creaky elbows.

this might inspire another here's my plan thread.


This makes me happy.

I will however note that making sure you take care of your hands/wrists and feet/ankles/lower legs, if kicking, when doing bag work is a good idea. Problems/neglect can sneak up on you.

If memory serves you have/have significant history of some neuro issues in your feet and hands. Am I remembering correctly?


Robert A


thank you - doing something remotely athletic made me feel good too

you have a good memory- I do have some issues in feet and hands-

left foot has been displaying some plantar factitious
both ankles have been sprained - tore ligaments in one
but the left foot needs allot of LX ball work

broke the 4th maybe the 5th metacarpal in my right hand
and I have some grip issues -that tell me they are related to C3-C5

I was wearing the shitty gloves that NYSC had.



Usually the brachial plexus is thought of as starting with the C5 nerve root and continuing on to T-1 (So C5, C6, C7, C8-named because it arrises below C7 and above a theoretical C-8 Not because you have 8 vertebrae in your neck, and T-1). Conventionally that would have me looking at just C5 as the cause.

I know you have had a ton of evals/studies done in the past was there any specific findings?(SEE Irish, He actually fucking went to doctors!) Has someone looked at peripheral nerve entrapment/insults? I'm assuming yes, but if not there may be some low tech fixes.


Robert A


Disclaimer: I am not your doctor. Nothing written below is intended to create a doctor-patient relationship. Nothing I can write over the internet should be used as or considered a substitute for actual hands on medical evaluation and care. I have a chimp avatar for shit's sake.

OK, just checked your strenf log.

Fused secondary to herniation?

Bilateral AC

Is the grip issue just on the right hand?

This has probably been covered by folks you payed for their knowledge/liability but nerves are sort of like small children. Any little thing they have to put up with makes them more likely to lose there shit. They are generally very tolerant of stretch or compression, they have to be, but if the nerve cannot slide around enough and on segment has to do all the stretching it can be a problem.

Conversely if the nerve is getting banged around or pulled every which way it also can cause issues. A bunch of sub clinical insults can wind up making big difference. Just like when a toddler completely loses their shit over nothing at the end of "big day of fun" at an event/amusement park. Parents know it wasn't what just happened. It was because he/she was "good all day".

I am wondering about entrapment/scar tissue that can be fixed with "jiggle that there sun of a bitch wire free" vs instability issues that need "keep the wires from getting pulled and bent and we won't lose signal" type tx.


Robert A


Robert A-

I want to give you a man hug
and buy you a drink
who really wants to see a Dr- when you can just to to
BOI or BB.com to get your pathology straight

I typed a manifesto - and then took it back.
then made it longer.

basically the shoulder dislocated several times- and then in a match broken clavicle.

x-rays - MRI have booth indicated that yes - fused to herniation.
a few dr's have recommended ACD or ACDF.

The grip is recent- past year or two?

both hands- give out where they formerly would not fatigue is a big clue.
A big squat session ok two of them - or physical day at work- done.

pulled some strings- via the backdoor channels - and saw a new Chiro who was affiliated with NYAC
whom I competed for- a million years ago.

He is an A CSCS played D1 football and or track and field
and kind of gets it - Ok he gets that Im going to train -
and dont have a 'slow' button more on that later.
said I was a bad candidate for the surgery- in that it wouldn't improve mobility
or really alleviate pain or discomfort.

He is very rational.. getting more familiar with me
says -go hard
go squat , clean , pull etc til it hurts.
then stop , but really stop.
Do that first day each week , fill the rest of the week with smaller - easier stuff.

He had moved on - to some other Team/University work/further study
situations but gave me a laundry list of mobility
work to do. And a list of things not to do.

Work- working with one or both arms overhead- isn't kind on the shoulders-
looking up at - lights above on what we call the grid and you call the ceiling isn't good either.
Really thats a good part of my job- looking up- to either supervise people working-- or to look at lights themselves.

Coiling cable - has got to be the worst thing for my elbows its like coiling a big ass rope.
or maybe it 's masterbation?

has to be work and typing.

I have almost sworn of Chiro's- they think I am like a rescue terrier.
They all want to adjust my atlas.

It sounds like a train wreck- I just thought this is what you look like if you do the work.
Ok this is what the kids at Iowa looked like - clear cause and effect there.
or a combo of untreated crap and shitty work stuff.

quit training?
leave showbiz?

where is the fun in that

damn dude I could have trained or did laundry
instead I wrote a college thesis with internet spelling and grammar.



I am tracking that you have not had any surgical discectomies with or without fusion, but that C3-C5 are sort of "fused". If correct one common progression is that generally poor lower cervical and upper thoracic mobility(very often with regards to extension and rotation) forces the mid cervical spine to move "more" so that your eyes wind up pointing where they need to. It should be noted that we have evolved to move mountains to get our eyes looking where they need to, damn any long term damage.

In your line of work not looking up immediately could be death, injury, or loss of money/delay in time that rises to "get your ass killed" levels of money anyway so it surprises me not at all this is an issue. The C/T junction (low cervical and upper thoracic spine) needs to be appropriately mobile, yet stable, for arm movements as well. Your history is one of having heavy weights/forces in your hands, or a hell of a lot of money riding on what you do with them, so again that fits.

Anyway one explanation is that the parts moving "too much" basically wear out quicker than normal/suffer increased stress leading to instability. This instability can result in bone spurs from one level connecting to spurs on another level in what some literature suggests is an attempt to re-enforce/stabilize the joint. Think of calcified, pain causing, duct tape.

The best answer to this is Time Machine. Basically go back in time, first bang the dumb Eloy Chick, then skip back to high school and college with the pre hab knowledge you learned/earned now. This is why I pimp your mobility thread so hard in this forum. Without a time machine things get more difficult. For one it is way, WAY harder to impress non-Eloy women. For another we run into limitations of anatomy.

IF this is what happened in your case it becomes a game of trying to improve motion where you originally needed it, but not forcing the parts hanging on for dear life to move. If C3-C5 aren't moving much at all than the brachial plexus below (starts C5 level) could be getting aggravated because of lack of motion or because the fusion above is putting weird stress on your neck and C/T. Add instability at the shoulder and whatever the hell else further on and you could very well have some cervical contribution/origin to your grip. The upper cervical spine occiput, atlis, axis is where most motion is supposed to happen, so people wanting to treat that sort of makes sense. On the other hand sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Have you ever had any type of focused massage/myofascial release/Graston/A.R.T./long track nerve mobilization done?

Also, I am apparently very, VERY huggable. It's a cross I have to bear.


Robert A


Robert A

I really wanted to have a sophisticated answer
but you had to throw in the time machine.

damn sir- that is truly a metaphysical trip.
could I get all emotional about bad choices?
the minutia of being a mid tier guy?

shit - Id have def fucked that 6' tall nordic chic from northern Iowa volleyball with the smiths shirt.

Id have let the kid that 'tutored' us take more of my exams like all of them.

really I should have made better connections - with people I competed against
and the coaches and staff I had the access too
taken some of those goons up on offers to summer with them
tain etc- some of those bastards have real good jobs.

yes Id do more prehab- vs just cracking my neck spitting and then running 12 miles.
cut less weight
probably would have hired a roid guru- to help stay healthy


ok back to business.
yes - I have had some formal massage- graston type work
rolfing was awesome I used to trade work all the time.

ahhh the locked up vs hypermobile shit in my thoracic and lower cervical vertabra
It does indeed lead to a great deal of stability issues

funny you mention how 'getting killed at work' is dependent on health.


Ok that above ode to Robert A's
huggable insights I cut short cause there it too much to say about it.

I wont be training for quite a while

I fell at work
I live.
but I am fucked up.
fell 12' landed on some hard shit on my left quad.

Posterolateral Corner while not smashed - is pretty banged up.
MCL torn
ACL needs complete replacement
hamstring no longer attached to my knee.

other then that some scrapes on my arms and forehead.

ortho guy is booking a surgery in the next few days.


Damn. I am incredibly sorry to read that. I suppose I should be glad that you were not injured worse. 12 feet in the kind of environment I think you work in (I have some limited TV studio experience) could have been much worse.

I hope from this point on your luck improves and everything involving the ortho and your recovery is mundane, speedy, and unremarkable. If you are a smoker or use other tobacco products (vapor, chew, whatever else) please pay heed to any and all warnings the ortho directs your way. Every good ortho I have spoken with thinks the correlation between tobacco and bad outcomes is understated.

Bad news and melancholy seems to be going around this forum a bit. You have concurred a lot in your life. Do not let this be the thing the gets over on you.

I suppose you will have more time to post now? So there is that.


Robert A


I am always at risk of hitting critical nerd.

I had to pick the H.G. Wells refference because the easy Eloi are in the future. That way even if Terminator/Back to the Future time travel were a thing you still wouldn't be at risk for screwing up the present you are trying to improve.

You were a bit higher than mid-tier. Reality is just swimming in the waters you did puts you in the top ten percent.

This is possibly the most important advice/point ever made in the combat forum. To hell with situational awareness, realism in training, quality of decision, ect.

Always go home with the tall nordic volleyball player.


If needed apply the Judo on pavement rules for takedowns and hotel sex.


Robert A


Laugh if you want.

You wouldn't be the first D-1 athlete to find me "huggable" and to act on it to almost an inappropriate degree. Hell, the former international level freestyle wrestler was one of the worst offenders. You were a Greco guy though. I am sure the nothing about Greco-Roman would link to dudes hugging...

What's that?





Robert A


Ouch! Hope you have a speedy and complete recovery Brotard, but also glad that it wasn't worse as Robert mentioned.


Fuck me. I hope you're OK man. That fucking sucks.

Although dealing with workman's comp will suck more.

Get well soon brotha.


Thanks Sento
Thanks Irish...

It does suck - the alternatives - being dead or more seriously wounded
this is pretty appealing.

I do appreciate it- the Esupport is a good thing
being addressed as brotard is goddamn funny-
I had to start a new account (not that I am really fooling anyone)



I thought this was DarkNinjaa's new account.