Evening all,
@samul I previously avoided listing out my exact diet because I didn’t want a debate around a specific food to take everyone off topic. My thinking is that my original question was about what I should be pursuing (fat loss, strength gain or conditioning) and that you can’t decide what diet to have until you decide what you want to achieve. However:
I can tell you that when I was underweight at 70kg (154lbs), and felt generally awful (tired, weak, IBS), I was eating around 2,200-2,300 kcal. I really don’t want to go there again.
I’ve been eating 3,000 - 3,100 to gain the weight/strength listed previously. The diet hasn’t been filthy, but not clean; still mostly whole foods, lots of meat and veg, but big portions of potatoes and rice with my meals and 4 meals a day. Biggest culprit by far was eating out 4 times per week with work guys for lunch at street food places.
Example day when gaining weight:
Breakfast:
3 fried eggs on 2 toast
Lunch 1:
Salad and chicken
Lunch 2:
Chicken, rice, Broccoli on a clean day OR steak, chips, salad OR Thai noodle [these last 2 would be eating out with work]
Dinner:
Jacket Potato, chicken, 2 veg
Snacks:
4 Nairns ginger oat biscuits (oat-based, lower sugar biscuit, but still ultimately a biscuit).
After dinner 1 to 2 squares of dark chocolate
I’ll add in my partner’s perspective which is that even with my extra fat I look the healthiest I have, I’m at my strongest and fastest I’ve ever been and also, somewhat unbelievably, by eating everything my IBS has magically been cured.
I am 178cm (5 foot 10), @lucasmon
Having read everyone’s thoughts, both on the specifics of training but also on mindset/overall philosophies, I’ve decided on a path.
I think that @RampantBadger is correct in his points about over thinking. I am prone to (genuine) OCD and therefore want The Correct Answer and The Exact Correct Training. My brain finds it hard to accept that there is an element of intuition, “see how you feel”; the art as well as the science. However, it’s probably true that no one knows exactly how minor nuances will effect an individual and also that trusting intuition is a generally better way to live life for good mental health .
I think the point about other priorities is also good. I don’t have kids, but I sold my house to start a business a few years ago and that feels like a child that needs constant attention! I should channel my most detailed, OCD-thoughts into that.
Having thought about it all I’m therefore going to:
- Carry on strength training, but have a period in the slightly higher rep ranges (4x8-3x12 rather than 2x2 – 4x5) - just an example.
- Add in conditioning (which will involve some strength/power work (e.g. Kettlebells) in the even higher rep ranges. This is my primary change that I’ll focus on.
- I’ll add some conditioning goals, and probably even some higher-rep-range strength targets, too.
- I’m not specifically aiming for deficit/maintenance/surplus, but I’ll rather try to be more intuition-led. I’m going to remove the ‘dirtiest’ elements of my diet, which will naturally result in a small drop in Kcal. If I notice negative effects (fatigue, reduced output), either in this cycle or when I return to heavier weights (see point 5) , then I’ll re-think.
- After this cycle (not sure if 4, 8 or 12 weeks) my plan is to keep the conditioning (but maybe scale back a bit), but reduce the reps on strength work and increase the weight to push my 1RMs up again.
My prediction is that I’ll probably lose some fat and improve my conditioning. I think I may gain strength in the higher rep ranges I’m working in, partly due to better conditioning and having more energy to finish reps. I’ve actually been training like this for 2 weeks already and my muscles have definitely grown (probably all the 4x8 work). My hope is that my low rep strength remains on the big three so that when I move on to the next cycle I don’t feel I have to cover old ground again.
Planned example diet (total 2,900, so slightly less than before):
Breakfast:
2 eggs (125 kcal), 2 toast (200kcal – it’s a small piece), margarine (100kcal)
Workout normally goes here
Lunch:
Fruit smoothie (250kcal), Rice (400 kcal), tuna (200 kcal), big salad, saladcream (100 kcal)
Dinner:
Jacket potato (350 kcal), margarine (75kcal), steak, fried (350kcal), Broccoli (50kcal), Peas (50kcal)
Post dinner:
2 square dark chocolate (100 kcal)
Other/snacks:
Tea with skimmed throughout the day (150kcal), 3 oat biscuits (150 kcal)
This comes out at 2,650. I actually want to be at 2,900, however I think I will because over the course of a week I’ll have:
• 3 bottles of beer, which averages to 50kcal extra per day
• 3 “somethings”, at 400 kcal each, averaging out to 171kcal. This could be anything from snacking on a couple of sausages to a pudding. If I decide I need to reduce more than I have done, this will be what is targeted. However, this category is also kinda the essence of pleasure from life, so if my conditioning is improving I won’t drop this.
The total of the proposed diet is therefore just under 2,900.
Note: I’m happier making quantitative changes than qualitive changes to my diet because for the first time in my life I no-longer have IBS. I generally respond well to eating wholemeal carbs, for example.
Thanks again everyone for your input. It really is super appreciated.