T Nation

I Don't Want To Wean Off Anymore. 'Roid Rage' on Lower Dose

Without knowing you and only your post history, I cannot judge it accurately but I would be inclined to say that the issues might manifest in different ways at different times and it for sure seems like you are a rather extreme character (not in a political sense but in a trait characteristics sense, meaning more pronounced personality traits than the average person).

Nah, I didn’t mind. I didn’t build a person around what I looked like, rather stayed who I always was, but stronger.

I’m working towards at least hitting 85kg (with the aid of orals) on this dose now. I slipped down to 75kg after C19 hit because it was “only 14 days” to flatten the curve. I don’t think I would’ve ever stopped have I had my own home gym. I was reliant on everywhere and it was a circus trying to get to a gym, let alone work out with a full face covering on (I almost passed out from lifting at one time).

I live the same lifestyle. Given, I don’t grab for a Tupperware anymore in-between meals, which I should be to hit my new goal.

I don’t know what HGH has to do with anything as it’s not a really highly discussed topic. I was on the low end and given 1iu per day to compensate which pushes me mid. I’m just wondering if I could’ve ever hit 110-120kg on that! :slight_smile:

You ran relatively high amounts of steroids for a number of years. Maybe part of your identity is now/was based on looking jacked and feeling like superman. I’m not surprised you’re not as happy as you were when you were in your element living with purpose. Eating, training, sleeping and growing with a goal in mind. Get stronger, look better was the aim and you worked for it.

Are you working towards something else now with equal zest? Or is there now a void in you life?

You stopped blasting and reduced your dose and lost some gains. Your self esteem probably took a hit as it was based on a previous lifestyle that you have now stopped living.

Just because you didn’t have mental health issues previously doesn’t mean they can’t propagate from significant changes in your life.

Throw some secondary hormonal changes on top of that and you might just act out of character.

1 Like

Sounds like you’ve got the bases covered. Best of luck with you goals.

I didn’t mention HGH.

Are you aware face masks don’t actually deprive the body of oxygen intake? That’s a myth, put on an oxygen sat moniter and put on a mask… Put ten of them on. It won’t make a difference

I’ve done high rep deadlifts in a mask, any difference you perceive is purely psychological from this standpoint. Wearing a mask in a gym is irritating, but you aren’t going to pass out and die.

The filtration systems masks use don’t filter out oxygen, nor do they impede the rate by which you can take in oxygen

As to using orals… Don’t you already have hypertrophic cardiomyopathy? I’d like to point out having an enlarged heart after half a decade on 500mg+ and orals is NOT athletes heart. It could be a combination of athletes heart + HCM/DCM, but no… 99% chance it’s a maladaptive alteration in cardiac geometry

A portion of the alterations in cardiac geometry elicited by AAS appears to be reversible… Provided you stop using.

Go see a psychiatrist, gear isn’t going to fix your problems. Gear probably won’t even boost your confidence all that much, anecdotally it never made much of a difference for me. Granted I never used 500mg/wk (200-400mg/wk) and I’d typically use synthetic derivitives like 100mg test 200mg primo, 100mg test 100mg mast.

1 Like

Collection from Asia (kids dying), ACE, and WHO in one place. I felt what I felt and know what that was. It wasn’t oxygen deprivation as much as it was CO2 reinhalation (like a bag over my head but still breathing).

That’s also unchecked from high school, through the Marines, through my marathon running stint, and later years, a combined total of 15-20 so nothing can be made the culprit at this point.

Already see one but that’s not going to take me to 100kg again. Meaning, I didn’t start for that reason nor quit for that reason so it’s moot to argue and not even relevant to discuss. I mean, noted above Marines.

Athletes heart is primarily reversible upon deconditioning. You could be an ultra marathon runner, averaging a running distance of 30 kilometres a day for five years. Six months of reconditioning and cardiac geometry will fall back into line/on the border of normal for the vast, vast majority of athletes

I’ve never had the fitness level of a marine and probably never will… But I went through a period wherein I’d run around 40km/wk and at the same time I’d cycle around 150-200 kilometres per week AND I’d go on an elliptical for an extra 40 minutes or so. I ended up developing stress fractures (presumably due to the running) and had to stop, this was during lockdown number 1 I believe.

Prior to my most recent bout of injuries I was training combat sports around eight to ten hours per week, I also spent around 4-6 hours/wk in the gym lifting weights + the occasional bike ride and a physically intensive job that (recorded) would sometimes have me walking 15 kilometres + in a shift on top of all the things I’d have to lift during a shift

I’m not trying to brag or gloat… I’m using this to state “My cardiac parameters are normal”. Athletes heart isn’t an easy thing to acquire and there are key differentiations one can make on an echo that distinguish athletes heart from maladaptive cardiac enlargement.

For reference, a family member of mine had the characteristic “athletes heart” when he was a triathlete. This dude trained for 4-6 hours per day in a manner more intense than I’ve ever trained in my life, his resting heart rate was below 40…

You had been in a psychiatric inpatient facility for months if I recall correctly. You’d lost a ton of muscle mass, your fitness/stamina… Yet you still had an enlarged heart. Chances are that isn’t athletes heart.

Anxiety/placebo can elicit powerful reactions. I can pull up data that proves masks don’t deprive you of oxygen. They might be annoying, but they aren’t dangerous… Masks can’t filter out oxygen, they filter out microscopic particles (and depending on the masks) some aerosols

Disagree. Not everything has to have a study to prove its true or false. Sometimes common sense is needed. I can’t see how re-inhaling a waste gas is going to be healthy in any way. You may have a study that says otherwise, but in the real world, it certainly does not seem healthy.

I’m a scientist, but I’ve learned that not every study is true for everyone that’s why I value anecdotal evidence over scientific evidence nowadays. I am much more open minded now than I used to be because I’ve seen first hand some facts to be the opposite of what I’ve seen in studies.

SB

You believe masks are dangerous?

We can agree to disagree.

Btw, the myth pertaining to masks and the inhalation of excess CO2 has been debunked.

That’s not how masks work.

I may not be a scientist, but I know about a dozen medical professionals (Jewish family :sweat_smile: #stereotypes) who would agree with me and perhaps half a dozen scientists who also share my POV. That coupled with the medical literature on display and I’m inclined to believe masks aren’t dangerous

Annoying? Yes… A danger to neurodevelopmental outcomes within kids? Very likely (can’t learn to read facial ques when wearing a mask).

Dangerous to physical health/wellbeing?.. No…

There’s even a video of an ER doc putting on like ten masks while watching his O2 sats… If he had excess CO2 in his bloodstream from the re inhalation of CO2 his O2 sat% would go down

I’ve done this myself, it doesn’t make a difference.

Are all of you talking about the same masks?

When I wear surgical masks, I don’t feel any airflow restriction and just find them annoying. But with FFP2/N95 I’ve seen enough people walking up stairs and nearly inhaling their mask with the air. That alone is enough proof that the air could not get through as fast as the air behind the mask was inhaled. To counter the impending vacuum the mask pulled towards the face and mouth. In my experience it’s clear that depending on breathing volume and frequency FFP2/N95 masks are not able to provide the same air flow as without them. I’m also inclined to believe that even under normal breathing conditions (at desk for example) a correctly worn FFP2 mask is not able to provide the same airflow as without a mask.

Anecdotally, I know tons of people (all vaccinated, no covid deniers or so) who get headaches with FFP2s on, especially those prone to migraines report higher frequencies of headaches.

Yeah, the mask thing is a different issue.

It could be your mask or my mask but I know what I felt was not a placebo and more in line with breathing in my exhaled air too quickly.

A kid died locally during P.E. as well, so mask mandates were lifted (a little too late).

Back to my heart, I really don’t mind. I think all of us are in the same boat about “if we die, we die” dabbling in this stuff. Like, we can do it as safely as possible, but that’s not going to negate the fact that people do die dabbling with pharma.

Talking about standard surgical masks most wear over here

I don’t know about KN95 masks, they’re more expensive and very few use them over here as a result.

Though KN95 can filter out (some) aerosols

It would appear as if none make a legitimate difference. Anyone can harbour any narrative they wish to harbour, however the cumulative data seems to indicate it doesn’t make a speck of difference. It should be noted perceived exertion appears to be higher when people wear masks… But vital signs don’t differ… Otherwise known as placebo… wearing masks can make you feel claustrophobic and restricted.

I’m not going to back down on this, we can agree to disagree. I’ve done sprints, Stairmaster, 20 rep squats etc wearing both surgical masks and KN95 masks… Though i think having to wear a mask DURING strenuous exercise is retarded, increased respiration rate will quickly make the mask useless as it become moist and permeable.

I’ve never perceived a difference re exertion from wearing a mask.

If I’m wrong, I’m wrong… I might be, I don’t know everything.

However the body of data available (note I say body… not one study) points to my conclusion being correct. There isn’t just one or two studies on this… There is cumulative a pile of data coming to the same conclusion I’ve come to. To reject that on the basis of anecdote doesn’t seem logical from my perspective… That’s when anti science rhetoric comes in because it fits a political narrative you might harbour.

To note, I’m not advocating we all wear masks while exercising because that’s fucking insane. I don’t want a generation of kids having to wear masks in school and on playgrounds… However I’ll adknowledge masks do reduce indoor transmission when people are in close contact with one another… They work

However if not in the context of an outright lockdown they aren’t feasible… And we are 2 years into this pandemic, it’s time for these restrictions to be phased out entirely.

Freedom is easy to give up, but it’s hard to get back. We now have Pfizer’s new antiviral drug, we have vaccines that are somewhat more effective than the flu shot… We have astrazenicas new antibody treatment.

If state/federal government’s could actually get their shit together and fast track these medications Europe wouldn’t be locking down again… If they’d offer (not mandate) boosters to those who are elligable they’d be in a better place, hence why the UK is sort of fine and Israel is doing superbly.

Instead we are looking at utter god damn incompetence… Politicians doing nothing but dragging their feet until one day “well… Looks like we are imposing restrictions, we have no other choice!”…

You had MANY routes you could’ve gone down before this… So why opt for the restrictive route? Almost seems as if they’re trying to test how much autocracy the population is willing to tolerate… However that’s conspiracy theory territory that I refuse to believe. I just jot it down to incompetence.

Perhaps I’m missing something and my proposed solutions aren’t feasible.

All of your exercises described are where you would have been inhaling outward to an angle.

Have you done this on a bench? I ask because you would be breathing upward where you exhale heavier CO2 molecules and are inhaling a lighter Oxygen. You’re saying it’s not feasible to inhale more CO2 as it is falling faster into your airway than you are inhaling O? Sounds to make scientific sense to me, and as to why I would experience such a placebo.

Yes, there was a time for the short time in between our extremely prolonged lockdowns wherein gyms were open

At that point staff were super shitty about masks, so I’d just wear it the whole time as opposed to constantly taking it on and off in between sets.

Bench pressing with a mask doesn’t make me breathless. Then again bench pressing (even heavy sets) isn’t liable to make me breathless. At this point in time the only types of exercise liable to make me breathless for more than say… Twenty seconds are

  • repeated sprints

  • high rep squats or deadlifts

  • distance running

  • repeated bouts of hard sparting.

  • stand up grappling (sparring, not technique)

Put it this way… SARS COV 2 molecules are around 100nm in diameter, a CO2 molecule is 0.33 nm in diameter. There is not a chance in hell a mask could block CO2 during exhalation and cause a backlog in the mask.

I’ll go to gym tomorrow wearing an unused KN95 mask and I’ll report back in an unbiased, honest fashion. If I actually do feel an increased sense of exertion I’ll be honest about it.

I’ll do bench press (heavy), OHP (light), some fluffy exercises for my rear delts and rotator cuff, dumbbell rows (like 6 sets), pullover machine and MAYBE some bicep curls/tricep dips or something.

Afterwards I’ll go on the Stairmaster for 20 minutes. Not something I’d usually do, but I’m curious. If you want to add in anything else, tell me what to add and I’ll add it.

I have combat sports after that, but can’t do that wearing a mask as everyone will look at me as if there is something wrong with me.

Put on 135 or 225 and do it for 30-40 reps (near dead), then drop set to 90 or 135 and continue. For the science.:slight_smile:

Flat bench* start at 135, 225, or 315 for 30+ reps (unsure where you are) and then drop and drop till you can get 50 out (needs assistance or you rest too long)

I weigh 170, if I was benching 315 for 30 I’d be an absolute phenom… I can do 30 with more than 135, but less than 225.

This isn’t conducive to my martial arts, but I’ll do it. Typically my training is tailored to increase power and explosiveness… This is bodybuilding style training/drop sets (that I used to be big into).

I can’t do assistance, I don’t have a gym partner.

Go 135 for exhaustion, then drop it to 90, and then burn out with the bar then. I would really be interested in knowing flat vs. standing. Also, the bench is an exercise of chest (expanding and contracting) while the others you mentioned is just breathing to breathe, not really apart of the exercise, so to speak (except squat with core).

This thread should be split, but really wondering how this experiment turns out.

Just don’t pass out. :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like

Well my next session (not tomorrow) is high rep/speed deadlifts and squats with moderate weight (worried about left hip). I only lift like 2-3x/wk at this point. Used to be 4x/wk but I’ve cut back due to injury.

I’ll use straps and amp up the reps even higher, so it’ll be like 225x3-40 or something. Or I could do say 315x15 drop to 225 do another 10 drop to 135 do another 5-6.

With both the caveat will be excess lactic acid build up. I’ll stop if it burns to the point I simply can’t take it. That or if my shoulder/hip or ribs are killing me

It’d be better if I knew what doing these exact routines were like without the mask, but there’s not a chance I’m doing this twice as it will detract from combat training (which I prefer)

1 Like

Sounds good. I’m sure you will be less ‘annoyed’ and more on the side of being unable to perform the activities, but we’ll see.

This is simply not the case. The question is how much volume can pass through the mask in which time frame, flow rate. Even though CO2 molecules are small, a lot of them are enough to saturate flow rate. Automobiles are also small compared to a tunnel, doesn’t mean you can fit infinitely many of them all at once through a tunnel.

There is definitely increased resistance to breathe against, especially during exercise. The vital signs don’t have to change for it to make a difference. Increased resistance during inhaling and exhaling will make a difference.

You can inhale the same air you got in your lungs right now several times before all oxygen is extracted and vital signs change, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t make a difference if you inhale against a resistance and a higher percentage of the already inhaled air in comparison to not wearing a mask.

Edit: You can’t inhale until all oxygen is depleted. Only until CO2 concentrations reach toxic levels. Just wanted to make clear. Then vital signs change.