I AM DESPERATE FOR BIOTEST PROTEIN BARS

EAS has “Muscle Media”, Biotest has “Testosterone” The 2 products help to support both magazines. This is a promotion fact. This means that good information can be retrieved from both mags. Stop being so brand loyal, just get what your body needs! (it might be B-test!) The highly emotional makeup of some, is entertianing, to say the least. What is the “status” in pay for for anything? The 100% cotton in $50.00 jeans is the same 100% cotton is $19.00 jeans!

Fitone- If you don’t know why people think of Bill P. as a sellout, then you never used to read the old MM2k back when TC was the editor.

As for the rest of your comments, Biotest does not mark up their prices that much. In fact, the cost of Grow! was increased just so there would be a small profit. Yes, I’m sure some companies mark up their crap products a lot, but when you use very expensive high quality ingredients to begin with, then that’s not possible and the profit margin is smaller. The manufacturing process itself for some Biotest products is extremely expensive. Biotest isn’t just putting bulk creatine in jars you know. And besides, Tim brings many new and innovative products to the market; he doesn’t just rehash stuff already out there. R&D is expensive.

Likewise, MAG-10 does not have the kind of mark-up you talk about.

Supplement companies are out to make money, you say? How shocking! Why the fuck do you go to work everyday, fitone? Or do you work for free out of the goodness of your heart and live in a cardboard box in an alley? Yes, Biotest makes money. Comes in handy when paying the phone bill and paying the writers for their work. The new articles we run cost us an easy three grand, usually more, WEEKLY. The best writers in the field don’t come cheap. (And neither do I as an editor.)

Oh yeah, and profit from Biotest is why this mag and forum are free. Funny how you criticize us for making money, but spend a lot of time on this free forum. (Judging from some of your posts, I don’t think you spend a lot of time reading the free articles at the mag, but that’s another topic.) But despite what you may think, a company can make money and still be honest and fair. Profit does not always equal “evil”. Don’t you think you deserve the money you make?

As for your comments on the FDA, they already regulate enough. If you want the government to regulate more then you’re nuts. If that were the case, you’d be going to the doctor to get a prescription for vitamin C and whey protein.

Hmmm, you want the government to regulate more AND you’re really offended that we make a living off of this site… Scary when you really think about it. John Galt would be pissed.

And quest, $19 jeans fall apart after you wash them and make your butt look fat. :slight_smile:

I don’t think there’s much in the way of factual evidence I could say that would add to Chris’ statements, but I did feel I should clear up a point I made previously.

Fitone, you argue that Bill Phillips and EAS has the same advertisment advantages through Muscle Media that Biotest has through T-mag. That may be true to a certain extent, but my point was this: I would estimate that roughly 90% of T-Mag readers consistently purchase or have purchased Biotest supplements, while a decidedly smaller percentage (albeit of a bigger number) of MM readers consistently buy EAS products. My reasoning is sound, so hear me out, please. T-Mag happens to appeal to a slightly more…serious, or “hardcore” segment of bodybuilders, fitness enthusiasts, or whatever label you’d like to stick on us. These people, like us, generally believe that supplementation is very important to progressing in our development. Now, while the same can be said of many MM readers, becaue MM has “sold out” (I’ll address that point below) it has become more mainstream and also appeals to a lot of beginners,or just to people who don’t take this stuff as seriously as we do, and therefore may or may not believe in the importance of supplementation. So my point, basically, is that in comparison to MM, a greater percentage of the overall reader-base of T-mag are supplement buyers.

You mentioned something about Bill Phillips “starting” the trend of advertising the wares of the parent company in a magazine. All I have to respond to that is, “Ummm…NO.” Out and out uninformed ridiculous statement. It’s been going on since bodybuilding mags came into being. I never stated that T-Mag started it, I merely said that because T-Mag is free, people will read it more often then something they have to pay $5.95 to thumb through a few times…which makes people more likely to keep coming back, increasing the importance and effectiveness of their (Biotest’s) marketting.

Thirdly, you mentioned people hating Phillips, etc. I have to assume that you're talking about people in general, and not me. I have never consigned Bill Phillips to the Abyss or anywhere else. Personally, I think he's quite a brilliant business man. A "sell out"? Yes, but when he sold out he made more than enough money to last him several lifetimes. Good for him. His magazine is less intensive than it used to be, and it's reader make-up shows that. I'm sure he weeps every morning over it while driving one of his many expensive cars. Good for him. I certainly don't curse his name. You asked why people call him a sell-out. It is simply because anyone who markets himself, his information, his products, and his company in a certain way, then pulls a 180 and changes everything specifically to appeal to a larger audience (and therefore make more money) is, in our society, a sell-out. It doesn't bother me; I'll just get my information elsewhere.

I hope I’ve cleared up my previous points. Sorry for the long post. Man, this soapbox is taking a beating…

AND the foul!

MBE: "Will ho for GROW since 1643."

-Eric

Had to chime in on this one. I have found biotest to be superior in both product and information. I’m pretty sure many would concur with this. The few that live the t-man/t-vixen lifestyle are generally on another level when it comes to training and nutrition. BFL types can’t even comprehend what it truly means to excel and thrive on what life has to offer. Biotest has had the best supps. in the biz for some time now. We know the real deal on things like soy, why NOT to buy shit products, etc… Chris Shugart, thank you for spelling it out to the few that just don’t get what goes into a business. Produce a quality product, back it up with research and market it properly (mag-10). It WILL cost money. And…it will sell. Biotest has earned my hard earned money and I will continue to give it to them. It works!!!


And for all of the other dick-licks out there that just don’t get it (the testosterone thing), that’s fine. I know where you can get some really purdy rainbow bumper stickers…

I did read MM way back when TC was the editor and it was good then and its still good now… All the diffrence is that it is not geared toward bodybuilding now its geared more towards functional training where there is a greater need. You have to admit BP did get everyone involved in fitness not just the hardcore lifters and for that I think he should be commended for not put down.

Also like Quest says why is everyone so brand loyal there is good products and bad in all supplement companies…

I can’t add much to what Trev, Chris, Steve and Keih have said. However…I did want to add my two cents worth:


In the case of “Biotest”, “Brand Loyalty” is not the same as “BLIND Loyalty”. This is a VERY diserning group of buyers. They seem to rip apart almost everything that comes from “Biotest”, study it to death, then often will put it to a “real world test” (usually posted as a “Support Group”). I’m not aware of ANY supplement company that has their products scrutinized so closely and so rapidly in the marketplace.


And don’t forget the rival companies ready to bury anything that “Biotest” comes out with (can you say “T-2” anyone?). If “Biotest” was coming out with crap, you could rest assured that there is more than one supplement company ready to “run and tell Mommy!!!”(The FDA). n many ways, these companies actually work as a “second level” of checks and balances in my trust of the “Biotest” products.


Anyone is ABSOLUTELY CRAZY if they think that there needs to be furthur regulation by any Government agency, especially the Bureaucratic, Politically motivated, Power Driven, step-sister-of-the-IRS, FDA. But what’s the alternative? SELF-REGULATION BY QUALITY COMPANIES! Is that process perfect? Hell no! But neither is furthur FDA regulation.


Give me a quality company, that has both internal AND external policies and forces that are continually scrutinizing it, and I’ll take my chances. “Biotest” fits the bill…