T Nation


I’m not particularly close to using gear but haven’t ruled it out for my future. My question is:

If money was not an issue, you had access to almost every available hormone/ai/steroid/anabolic substance, and it was your first cycle…what would you do?

For a first cycle - Test E 500-600mg/week for 12 weeks.

If money was no object:

Primobolan 1g a week 16 weeks

It is my first cycle; and money is not an issue, and I’m doing Test Cyp. 200mg/Deca 100mg per week for 12 weeks.

Although I realize it’s not the CRAZIEST cycle; I’m just trying to ease my body into it so my next cycle I’ll be able to be a little more liberal with.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
For a first cycle - Test E 500-600mg/week for 12 weeks. [/quote]

plus some estrogen control and PCT supplies

Trenbolone acetate, 150-200 mg on day 1 and 75-100 mg/day through day 12.

Oxymetholone, 200 mg/day in four doses, throughout.

If money is no object, while on a first cycle it really may not make any difference when having the above, Winstrol Depot 200 mg on day 1 and 50 mg/day through day 6. Then orals building from 25 mg/day up to 100 mg/day by day 13; day 14 use morning-only.

HCG 100 IU/day. For a 2 week cycle HCG ordinarily isn’t needed to maintain testicle size but all of our androgens above are non-aromatizables, which means estrogen will exist only from conversion of what endogenous T production there is. So we want to maintain decent T production even though maintaining testicle size isn’t an issue over such a short period, as abnormally low estrogen isn’t good.

Clomid or Nolvadex either post-cycle or optionally during, front-loading either at about 6x/dose. (Else levels will take a long time to build up to being effective, whereas this gets to steady state immediately for Clomid, and probably not far below it for Nolvadex.)

GH 1.5 to 2.0 IU per day. Optionally, though it is probably adding risk, allowing 1-4 days in the second week at 4 IU per day where those days are planned to achieve quantum jumps, so to speak.

Insulin limited only to doses already proven safe from very gradual workup in the individual and where risk is deemeed eliminated of accidentally injecting a wrong amount. E.g., if you keep another injectable say HCG in the same place as the insulin bottle, and are familiar with a given “line” to draw to for the HCG, in a brain-fog moment that much insulin might be injected, either when intending to inject insulin or perhaps HCG. This kind of mistake can be fatal. So really the error has to be gotten down to “fail-safe”, which some percentage of any group won’t achieve.

Granting that the person has learned personal amounts and methods safe for him for insulin, example amounts (but will vary according to the person) are 4 IU 3x/day, or even a high spike of say 14 IU immediately post-workout where that workout is folllowed immediately by Surge and then within a half-hour a lot of other carbs, e.g. nearly half a Hungry Howie’s pizza. To avoid blunting of insulin sensitivity I’d not use both approaches, but only one for any given day.

Gains won’t be much days 1-3 as it takes time from the steroid receptors being activated to there being big changes in cellular proteins. So these days don’t require big eating. The remainder of the cycle does, unless it’s some later cycle which might be devoted or have some of its time devoted to cutting. That makes little sense for a first-cycle, though.

I am sure some will say this is too much, but a novice’s ability to tolerate these compounds in these amounts (except for individuality of insulin) is just as good as a more experienced user. It’s not as if it’s going to be “toxic” for him now but not if he had done previous cycles. I would rather see a guy pack on what proves to be 10-15 lb of retained muscle in 2 weeks, immediately recovering his natural T production after that, than flopping around with some low dose trying to eke out gains over months.

A reason for this preference is in how muscle growth over time occurs as I understand it. Hoping that each workout will provide a tiny increment and the cell is going to “plump up” some small amount and these are just supposed to add on to each other, just isn’t it. That is providing a wavering about some mean value, but not qualitative change, and not anything that actually necessarily builds on itself.

However when satellite cells fuse to an existing muscle fiber thus adding nuclei and thus permanently adding protein synthesis capacity, or when satellite cells themselves mature, this is a change that if it happens to a substantial degree when it does, is a pretty big change and it IS one that builds on itself.

E.g., take modest dose anabolic steroids for months and months and months and relatively little may happen to your calves or other weak bodyparts. A little improvement, but no change of kind.

Take the serious doses and it can rapidly be “Man I never had thigh sweep before, look at this” etc.

Another reason for preferring fast results is that from the standpoint of training it’s easier and better to set up where, say, these 2 weeks are intended to give massive results, and go full-bore to the envelope of the program for that time, than to have every week, week after week month after month, just as “hopeful” or rather no more hopeful than any other, and seeing slow results on previous weeks thus not expecting fast results presently either.

There’s a reason there are many scientific studies saying their outcome of evaluating anabolic steroid use in athletes was no benefit or no statistically significant benefit. It’s not because they were liars, it’s because moderate doses (e.g. 250 mg/week total) often give little to no benefit, and quite modest dosages (e.g. 500 mg/week) ordinarily give slow results. A natural trainer hitting a good groove may well make faster gains than a 500 mg/week user that for whatever reason things aren’t coming together for him at that point in time. (Obviously, if that same natural trainer were to be taking the 500 mg at that point in time, he would enjoy fast results: this, along with a few people being more responsive to low dose steroids than others, accounts for why sometimes there are fine results from say 500 mg/week.)

As usual Bill has provided some insightful perspective.

I’ve never user Anavar due to its cost and I’d love to try that. Also considering how mild it is it would be a nice stacker for any starter cycle.