T Nation

Hypogonadotrophic Hypergonadism/HCG/Fertility

I think you get more input if you share all the lab data you have

In this case it wouldn’t be bad to know which measurements are relevant?

For example I had an insulin tolerance test with normal response:

18.07.19 ACTH pg/ml 0-80 48
18.07.19 ACTHi 15 pg/ml 31,3
18.07.19 ACTHi 30 pg/ml 50,6
18.07.19 ACTHi 60 pg/ml 33,2
18.07.19 ACTHi 90 pg/ml 22,7
18.07.19 Cortisol μg/dl 2,0-25,0 15,0
18.07.19 Corti 15 μg/dl 16,70
18.07.19 Corti 30 μg/dl 18,00
18.07.19 Corti 60 μg/dl 15,70
18.07.19 Cortisol 90 μg/dl 14,3
18.07.19 FT 3 pmol/l 2,7-6,9 2,9
18.07.19 FT 4 pmol/l 10,0-28,0 11,2
18.07.19 TSH μU/ml 0,20-2,00 2,06
18.07.19 Prolaktin 15(Hypo) ng/ml 0,0-15,0 13,4
18.07.19 Prolaktin ng/ml 0,00-20,00 11,00
18.07.19 STH ng/ml 0,0-8,6 1,1
18.07.19 STH 15 ng/ml 0,9
18.07.19 STH after 30 min ng/ml 4,8
18.07.19 STH after 60 min ng/ml 3,7
18.07.19 STH after 90 min ng/ml 2,7

Most importantly the LH, SHBG and T values.

I am just curious to understand how you had normal development with an LH of 0.3 and a T of 3nmol/l. These values are just very very low.

Did you always have such low levels before the Nebido test? Or has this changed just recently?

I’ve had creepingly less libido after a longer diet (~1 year, lost 10kg) and heavy training. I think in autumn 2018 it started and in February 2019 I was at the endocrinologist. That’s where I took my first blood test ever in my life. All the others are already under Nebido! The doc only measured testosterone, LH, FSH and prolactin before nebido. Of course I must have had much higher values before the “event”.

This levels are from january, made by my family doc

To continue this topic here:

Is there a way for me to check if I can react to Clomid ?

Do I have to restart my axis after the HcG therapy as described in the sticky or can I simply see if I am “good” worth by myself?

The only way to check how you will react to clomid is to try taking it.
I suggest you use 12.5mg ED or EOD if you go the clomid route. For many guys it increases SHBG

The question comes up whether HcG will be suppressing my natural FSH?

HCG suppresses pituitary secretion for gonadotropins, yes

FSH is very expensive and it’s gonna be months before I have mature sperm with that. Besides it is connected with at least 3 syringes per week + the hcg syringes… that is brutal
Do you have an argumenation for me to convince my doctor to offlabel use clomid?

Clomid is cheap, less invasive and can also do the work, but most likely you will feel worse on it. I have felt terrible on clomid

Hello guys,

small bloodwork update 11.12.19 :

Albumin g/dl 3,4-5,0 4,5
HDL-Cholest mg/dl 35-65 60
Kreatinin mg/dl 0,6-1,3 1,1
LDL-Cholest. mg/dl 70-120 67
Albumin g/dl 3,4-5,0 4,5
Cholesterin mg/dl 80-200 135
Estradiol pg/ml 0,0-36,0 20,6
FSH mIU/ml 0,2-10,0 <0,10
LH mIU/ml 0,5-6,0 0,1
SHBG nmol/l 9,0-55,0 34,0
free Androgenindex 15-90 27
Testosteron nmol/l 6,2-26,2 9,4

The doctor thinks I should keep the therapy (2x 1500 i.E. subk. hcg per week)
What do you think?
There’s still potential up there, isn’t there?
500 I.E. or 750 I.E. every other day?

Your testosterone looks veery low as for on therapy

You dont say

So does the doctor think you respond well to HCG?

Under HCG therapy, hypogonadotropic hypogonadism and
desire to have children an adequate increase in testosterone. A spermiogram is recommended under therapy. The next laboratory control with us
is recommended in 8 weeks.

Yea if you want to have children now keep it this way. After you do the job you will need testosterone

Is it possible to add Clomid while on HcG to improve my initial FSH?

Do you have any experience / protokoll for that?

Im doing 750 I.E. EOD and feeling very well.

You can yes many doctors add clomid in fertility protocol but it should be assessed

No, doesnt make any sense at all.

No, not on hCG.