Hypertrophic Caloric Intake?

Diet and Nutrition
21

[quote]Kliplemet wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
Thanks Klip

-grabs calculator…
That would work out to about 3840 calories a day.
Any specific formular for carbs, protein, and fat?

i got the formula for calories from
Susan M. Kleiner’s (PHD,RD,FACN,CNS) “power eating” book. for most people it’s right on the money, if you don’t gain add 250-500 cals per day, primarily carbs, secondarily fats.

yes, there are also formulas for the proteins, carbs and fats, but a lot of people on this site will disagree, anyways…

calories/lb: 24+
protein: 0.73 g/lb
carbohydrate: 3.6 g/lb
fat: whatever is left over from your cals after subtracting protein and carbohydrate

bulking[/quote]

Again, thanks Klip

22

[quote]Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Sentoguy

.73 might be a TAD on the lightside, but he most certainly does not need 2g/lb of protein to put on muscle. For muscle and protein synthesis most clinical research would show that 1g/lb is more than sufficient. The only reason to consume more protein would be for other dietary reasons like losing weight.

Agreed. Your body needs more protein when taking in LESS calories than it takes to maintain your body weight. If you are eating to gain, your goal should be to keep protein in storage and keep it from being used as a primary energy source. That means the largest concern is overall caloric intake, not protein.[/quote]

Prof,
Remembe one thing. I said I am in a hypertrophic phase of training. Not strength training yet. As far as I can tell that means I am trying to volumize my muscle cell. Or as my bro says “increasing the cross section of the muscle cell” I did not know if this kind of training translates into a need for a higher than usual caloric intake if one is already eating a protein rich diet. For ten years I never did anything besides pyramid type workout routines. I never knew about things like periodization. Yes, you are going to gain doing the things described in the muscle mags, however, you will not have optimal gains.

23

[quote]E-Dub wrote:
Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Sentoguy

.73 might be a TAD on the lightside, but he most certainly does not need 2g/lb of protein to put on muscle. For muscle and protein synthesis most clinical research would show that 1g/lb is more than sufficient. The only reason to consume more protein would be for other dietary reasons like losing weight.

Agreed. Your body needs more protein when taking in LESS calories than it takes to maintain your body weight. If you are eating to gain, your goal should be to keep protein in storage and keep it from being used as a primary energy source. That means the largest concern is overall caloric intake, not protein.

Prof,
Remembe one thing. I said I am in a hypertrophic phase of training. Not strength training yet. As far as I can tell that means I am trying to volumize my muscle cell. Or as my bro says “increasing the cross section of the muscle cell” I did not know if this kind of training translates into a need for a higher than usual caloric intake if one is already eating a protein rich diet. For ten years I never did anything besides pyramid type workout routines. I never knew about things like periodization. Yes, you are going to gain doing the things described in the muscle mags, however, you will not have optimal gains.

[/quote]

You are confusing me further and I am beginning to wonder if other concepts like “the light switched needs to be flipped in order for there to be light” are an issue as well. You are trying to gain muscle mass. Why would you think you didn’t need to increase calories? Please, answer the question. Why do you think this way and why is it basic concepts seem foreign to you?

You grew in height as a teenager. That makes any weight gain you claim as a direct result of weight training null and void. If you didn’t gain weight while growing two inches in height, that would probably mean you were severely malnourished. That means you NEVER made much at all in the way of gains as a result of your work in the gym. Perhaps you should try listening to what people are telling you?

24

[quote]E-Dub wrote:
Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Sentoguy

.73 might be a TAD on the lightside, but he most certainly does not need 2g/lb of protein to put on muscle. For muscle and protein synthesis most clinical research would show that 1g/lb is more than sufficient. The only reason to consume more protein would be for other dietary reasons like losing weight.

Agreed. Your body needs more protein when taking in LESS calories than it takes to maintain your body weight. If you are eating to gain, your goal should be to keep protein in storage and keep it from being used as a primary energy source. That means the largest concern is overall caloric intake, not protein.

Prof,
Remembe one thing. I said I am in a hypertrophic phase of training. Not strength training yet. As far as I can tell that means I am trying to volumize my muscle cell. Or as my bro says “increasing the cross section of the muscle cell” I did not know if this kind of training translates into a need for a higher than usual caloric intake if one is already eating a protein rich diet. For ten years I never did anything besides pyramid type workout routines. I never knew about things like periodization. Yes, you are going to gain doing the things described in the muscle mags, however, you will not have optimal gains.

[/quote]

If you are trying to gain mass, you really always need to be eating a caloric surplus. Period

25

[quote]Kliplemet wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
As far as I can tell that means I am trying to volumize my muscle cell. Or as my bro says “increasing the cross section of the muscle cell” I did not know if this kind of training translates into a need for a higher than usual caloric intake if one is already eating a protein rich diet.

you are increasing body mass, mass is a form of energy, energy has to come from somewhere (FOOD)
[/quote]

mass + energy = power

26

[quote]Professor X wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Sentoguy

.73 might be a TAD on the lightside, but he most certainly does not need 2g/lb of protein to put on muscle. For muscle and protein synthesis most clinical research would show that 1g/lb is more than sufficient. The only reason to consume more protein would be for other dietary reasons like losing weight.

Agreed. Your body needs more protein when taking in LESS calories than it takes to maintain your body weight. If you are eating to gain, your goal should be to keep protein in storage and keep it from being used as a primary energy source. That means the largest concern is overall caloric intake, not protein.

Prof,
Remembe one thing. I said I am in a hypertrophic phase of training. Not strength training yet. As far as I can tell that means I am trying to volumize my muscle cell. Or as my bro says “increasing the cross section of the muscle cell” I did not know if this kind of training translates into a need for a higher than usual caloric intake if one is already eating a protein rich diet. For ten years I never did anything besides pyramid type workout routines. I never knew about things like periodization. Yes, you are going to gain doing the things described in the muscle mags, however, you will not have optimal gains.

You are confusing me further and I am beginning to wonder if other concepts like “the light switched needs to be flipped in order for there to be light” are an issue as well. You are trying to gain muscle mass. Why would you think you didn’t need to increase calories? Please, answer the question. Why do you think this way and why is it basic concepts seem foreign to you?

You grew in height as a teenager. That makes any weight gain you claim as a direct result of weight training null and void. If you didn’t gain weight while growing two inches in height, that would probably mean you were severely malnourished. That means you NEVER made much at all in the way of gains as a result of your work in the gym. Perhaps you should try listening to what people are telling you?[/quote]

I think gaining 49 lbs on two inches of height would mean more than just average weight gain. Started at 17 yrs old.

Also, I am listening. I obviously need to eat more than usual. I was concerned about overeating. I really don’t want to look like a tic at the end of 12 weeks.

27

[quote]E-Dub wrote:
Professor X wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Sentoguy

.73 might be a TAD on the lightside, but he most certainly does not need 2g/lb of protein to put on muscle. For muscle and protein synthesis most clinical research would show that 1g/lb is more than sufficient. The only reason to consume more protein would be for other dietary reasons like losing weight.

Agreed. Your body needs more protein when taking in LESS calories than it takes to maintain your body weight. If you are eating to gain, your goal should be to keep protein in storage and keep it from being used as a primary energy source. That means the largest concern is overall caloric intake, not protein.

Prof,
Remembe one thing. I said I am in a hypertrophic phase of training. Not strength training yet. As far as I can tell that means I am trying to volumize my muscle cell. Or as my bro says “increasing the cross section of the muscle cell” I did not know if this kind of training translates into a need for a higher than usual caloric intake if one is already eating a protein rich diet. For ten years I never did anything besides pyramid type workout routines. I never knew about things like periodization. Yes, you are going to gain doing the things described in the muscle mags, however, you will not have optimal gains.

You are confusing me further and I am beginning to wonder if other concepts like “the light switched needs to be flipped in order for there to be light” are an issue as well. You are trying to gain muscle mass. Why would you think you didn’t need to increase calories? Please, answer the question. Why do you think this way and why is it basic concepts seem foreign to you?

You grew in height as a teenager. That makes any weight gain you claim as a direct result of weight training null and void. If you didn’t gain weight while growing two inches in height, that would probably mean you were severely malnourished. That means you NEVER made much at all in the way of gains as a result of your work in the gym. Perhaps you should try listening to what people are telling you?

I think gaining 49 lbs on two inches of height would mean more than just average weight gain. Started at 17 yrs old.

Also, I am listening. I obviously need to eat more than usual. I was concerned about overeating. I really don’t want to look like a tic at the end of 12 weeks.[/quote]

I totally agree. 49 lbs does not translate to natural weight gain from two inches of growth. But, it’s not what it could have been. And that is because of eating. You do not have to become obese. But you are going to need to eat a caloric surplus. And you are going to need to be prepared to gain some fat to put on the muscle you want.

28

[quote]E-Dub wrote:
Professor X wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Sentoguy

.73 might be a TAD on the lightside, but he most certainly does not need 2g/lb of protein to put on muscle. For muscle and protein synthesis most clinical research would show that 1g/lb is more than sufficient. The only reason to consume more protein would be for other dietary reasons like losing weight.

Agreed. Your body needs more protein when taking in LESS calories than it takes to maintain your body weight. If you are eating to gain, your goal should be to keep protein in storage and keep it from being used as a primary energy source. That means the largest concern is overall caloric intake, not protein.

Prof,
Remembe one thing. I said I am in a hypertrophic phase of training. Not strength training yet. As far as I can tell that means I am trying to volumize my muscle cell. Or as my bro says “increasing the cross section of the muscle cell” I did not know if this kind of training translates into a need for a higher than usual caloric intake if one is already eating a protein rich diet. For ten years I never did anything besides pyramid type workout routines. I never knew about things like periodization. Yes, you are going to gain doing the things described in the muscle mags, however, you will not have optimal gains.

You are confusing me further and I am beginning to wonder if other concepts like “the light switched needs to be flipped in order for there to be light” are an issue as well. You are trying to gain muscle mass. Why would you think you didn’t need to increase calories? Please, answer the question. Why do you think this way and why is it basic concepts seem foreign to you?

You grew in height as a teenager. That makes any weight gain you claim as a direct result of weight training null and void. If you didn’t gain weight while growing two inches in height, that would probably mean you were severely malnourished. That means you NEVER made much at all in the way of gains as a result of your work in the gym. Perhaps you should try listening to what people are telling you?

I think gaining 49 lbs on two inches of height would mean more than just average weight gain. Started at 17 yrs old.

Also, I am listening. I obviously need to eat more than usual. I was concerned about overeating. I really don’t want to look like a tic at the end of 12 weeks.[/quote]

Of course, most individuals who don’t train at all will gain some amount of muscle between teh ages of 17 and 21.

29

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
Professor X wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Sentoguy

.73 might be a TAD on the lightside, but he most certainly does not need 2g/lb of protein to put on muscle. For muscle and protein synthesis most clinical research would show that 1g/lb is more than sufficient. The only reason to consume more protein would be for other dietary reasons like losing weight.

Agreed. Your body needs more protein when taking in LESS calories than it takes to maintain your body weight. If you are eating to gain, your goal should be to keep protein in storage and keep it from being used as a primary energy source. That means the largest concern is overall caloric intake, not protein.

Prof,
Remembe one thing. I said I am in a hypertrophic phase of training. Not strength training yet. As far as I can tell that means I am trying to volumize my muscle cell. Or as my bro says “increasing the cross section of the muscle cell” I did not know if this kind of training translates into a need for a higher than usual caloric intake if one is already eating a protein rich diet. For ten years I never did anything besides pyramid type workout routines. I never knew about things like periodization. Yes, you are going to gain doing the things described in the muscle mags, however, you will not have optimal gains.

You are confusing me further and I am beginning to wonder if other concepts like “the light switched needs to be flipped in order for there to be light” are an issue as well. You are trying to gain muscle mass. Why would you think you didn’t need to increase calories? Please, answer the question. Why do you think this way and why is it basic concepts seem foreign to you?

You grew in height as a teenager. That makes any weight gain you claim as a direct result of weight training null and void. If you didn’t gain weight while growing two inches in height, that would probably mean you were severely malnourished. That means you NEVER made much at all in the way of gains as a result of your work in the gym. Perhaps you should try listening to what people are telling you?

I think gaining 49 lbs on two inches of height would mean more than just average weight gain. Started at 17 yrs old.

Also, I am listening. I obviously need to eat more than usual. I was concerned about overeating. I really don’t want to look like a tic at the end of 12 weeks.

Of course, most individuals who don’t train at all will gain some amount of muscle between teh ages of 17 and 21.
[/quote]

I wish that were true for me. I would consider myself a very hard gainer. At one point I kept a dietary journal. I was taking in excess of 5000 calories a day and still had a hard time gaining weight. Now that was when I was 20 to 21 years old. Obviously that has changed a little.

30

[quote]E-Dub wrote:
Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Sentoguy

.73 might be a TAD on the lightside, but he most certainly does not need 2g/lb of protein to put on muscle. For muscle and protein synthesis most clinical research would show that 1g/lb is more than sufficient. The only reason to consume more protein would be for other dietary reasons like losing weight.

Agreed. Your body needs more protein when taking in LESS calories than it takes to maintain your body weight. If you are eating to gain, your goal should be to keep protein in storage and keep it from being used as a primary energy source. That means the largest concern is overall caloric intake, not protein.

Prof,
Remembe one thing. I said I am in a hypertrophic phase of training. Not strength training yet. As far as I can tell that means I am trying to volumize my muscle cell. Or as my bro says “increasing the cross section of the muscle cell” I did not know if this kind of training translates into a need for a higher than usual caloric intake if one is already eating a protein rich diet. For ten years I never did anything besides pyramid type workout routines. I never knew about things like periodization. Yes, you are going to gain doing the things described in the muscle mags, however, you will not have optimal gains.

[/quote]

Let me get this straight. You train for ten years with little improvement–per you. Now you are going to argue nutrient needs based on your ‘hypertrophic training’ as opposed to strength training needs.

Let me be the first to tell you that they are not two completely seperate entities. Caloric needs to achieve either/both are very similar. How would you expect your muscles to grow–or ‘volumize’ or ‘increase their cross sectional…’ without excess calories? Do you think if you ate 500g/prot. and not enough overall calories that you would get either bigger or stronger?

If I were you, I’m not so sure I’d be worried about ‘optimal gains’ at this point.

31

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Sentoguy

.73 might be a TAD on the lightside, but he most certainly does not need 2g/lb of protein to put on muscle. For muscle and protein synthesis most clinical research would show that 1g/lb is more than sufficient. The only reason to consume more protein would be for other dietary reasons like losing weight.

Agreed. Your body needs more protein when taking in LESS calories than it takes to maintain your body weight. If you are eating to gain, your goal should be to keep protein in storage and keep it from being used as a primary energy source. That means the largest concern is overall caloric intake, not protein.

Prof,
Remembe one thing. I said I am in a hypertrophic phase of training. Not strength training yet. As far as I can tell that means I am trying to volumize my muscle cell. Or as my bro says “increasing the cross section of the muscle cell” I did not know if this kind of training translates into a need for a higher than usual caloric intake if one is already eating a protein rich diet. For ten years I never did anything besides pyramid type workout routines. I never knew about things like periodization. Yes, you are going to gain doing the things described in the muscle mags, however, you will not have optimal gains.

Let me get this straight. You train for ten years with little improvement–per you. Now you are going to argue nutrient needs based on your ‘hypertrophic training’ as opposed to strength training needs.

Let me be the first to tell you that they are not two completely seperate entities. Caloric needs to achieve either/both are very similar. How would you expect your muscles to grow–or ‘volumize’ or ‘increase their cross sectional…’ without excess calories? Do you think if you ate 500g/prot. and not enough overall calories that you would get either bigger or stronger?

If I were you, I’m not so sure I’d be worried about ‘optimal gains’ at this point.[/quote]

Of course I am going to worry about optimal gains at this point or are you trying to tell me that I should just continue to waste more time in the gym. I came here for input and help because I knew I had been barking up the wrong tree for a long time. I am, However, aware that there are different diet structures for different kinds of training. You would definitely garner a lot more respect from me as well a more receptive ear if you would quit with the condescending attitude.

32

[quote]E-Dub wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Sentoguy

.73 might be a TAD on the lightside, but he most certainly does not need 2g/lb of protein to put on muscle. For muscle and protein synthesis most clinical research would show that 1g/lb is more than sufficient. The only reason to consume more protein would be for other dietary reasons like losing weight.

Agreed. Your body needs more protein when taking in LESS calories than it takes to maintain your body weight. If you are eating to gain, your goal should be to keep protein in storage and keep it from being used as a primary energy source. That means the largest concern is overall caloric intake, not protein.

Prof,
Remembe one thing. I said I am in a hypertrophic phase of training. Not strength training yet. As far as I can tell that means I am trying to volumize my muscle cell. Or as my bro says “increasing the cross section of the muscle cell” I did not know if this kind of training translates into a need for a higher than usual caloric intake if one is already eating a protein rich diet. For ten years I never did anything besides pyramid type workout routines. I never knew about things like periodization. Yes, you are going to gain doing the things described in the muscle mags, however, you will not have optimal gains.

Let me get this straight. You train for ten years with little improvement–per you. Now you are going to argue nutrient needs based on your ‘hypertrophic training’ as opposed to strength training needs.

Let me be the first to tell you that they are not two completely seperate entities. Caloric needs to achieve either/both are very similar. How would you expect your muscles to grow–or ‘volumize’ or ‘increase their cross sectional…’ without excess calories? Do you think if you ate 500g/prot. and not enough overall calories that you would get either bigger or stronger?

If I were you, I’m not so sure I’d be worried about ‘optimal gains’ at this point.

Of course I am going to worry about optimal gains at this point or are you trying to tell me that I should just continue to waste more time in the gym. I came here for input and help because I knew I had been barking up the wrong tree for a long time. I am, However, aware that there are different diet structures for different kinds of training. You would definitely garner a lot more respect from me as well a more receptive ear if you would quit with the condescending attitude.[/quote]

What you do with my information is up to you. I will tell you this, if what I said and how I said it upset you so, you really can’t see the forest for the trees.

Show me the different ‘diet structure’ for your hypertrophic training and strength training.

You would get a lot different tone from me if you would take the info and digest instead of discounting it or trying to show why it’s not right for you. What you have shown is a basic lack of knowlege for how to achieve your goals nutritionally. And we haven’t even seen your training yet.

My ‘condescending’ remark–by the way–was not intended as such. What I was inferring was, with your lack of basic nutritional knowlege, I would focus on gaining that base of knowlege as you train through it. You won’t be at optimal gains for awhile. That doesn’t mean you can’t improve.

33

[quote]E-Dub wrote:
Of course I am going to worry about optimal gains at this point or are you trying to tell me that I should just continue to waste more time in the gym. I came here for input and help because I knew I had been barking up the wrong tree for a long time. I am, However, aware that there are different diet structures for different kinds of training. You would definitely garner a lot more respect from me as well a more receptive ear if you would quit with the condescending attitude.[/quote]

Dude, your whining is irritating. People are noticing HUGE discrepancies or disconnects in your knowledge of training and nutrition. Bottom line, you don’t know jack shit. We are trying to at least get the basics squared away and you are skipping over the basics as if you are ready for the advanced class. Here’s a hint…you aren’t ready. Learn how to make your weight go up and your strength increase before you worry about what is “optimal”. You have to pass “minimal” before you get to optimal. You have to be able to understand the basics before you jump into grad school.

34

[quote]E-Dub wrote:

I wish that were true for me. I would consider myself a very hard gainer. At one point I kept a dietary journal. I was taking in excess of 5000 calories a day and still had a hard time gaining weight. Now that was when I was 20 to 21 years old. Obviously that has changed a little.[/quote]

No weight gain at that amount of cals? Stuffing your face for a day or two and not liking it, isn’t the same as consistently eating 5000+ cals for days, weeks, months on end. That’s how you really gain the weight, being consistent. Think about it, anybody can eat that on the weekend, when it’s convenient, and then eat like shit during the week and then blame it on the fact that they are a “hardgainer”. Most “hardgainers” spend more time making excuses instead of being fucking constistent!! Remember that.

Also, it seems like you’re making things a little too complicated.
My advice, if you dont have much of an appitite right now (which I’m assuming you don’t, because if you did and you were eating lots of food, you wouldn’t really have a prob gaining weight), just stuff your face with some quality food for 3 or so meals (pasta, ground beef, milk, eggs, olive oil, chk, bread, etc.) and then for another 3 meals or more, just have some protein shakes (mrp’s, straight protein, weight-gainers, etc.)with 2 or more bananas per meal (just an eg, because you can cary banana’s and shakes with you anywhere and you dont have the excuse that it just isn’t convenient).

Approach it simply and you’ll realize that it really is simple. If you are pressed for time, just realize that the only meal (as above) that you have to prepare ahead of time is just lunch. Your first and last whole food meals can be prepared at home. Easy. Also, don’t stress about eating clean. What a waste of time when bulking. Enjoy some Wendy’s burgers or some chinese food and YOU WILL gain the weight! Also, if want to maximze muscle gain, you’re jsut going to have to put on some fat. It’s that simple. If it has worked for millions of people, it will work for you too.

Rant over. Good luck.