T Nation

Hydrolyzed Whey Isolate = Whey Hydrolysate?


#1

Is hydrolyzed whey isolate the same as whey hydrolysate?


#2

Hydrolised Whey is the same as Whey Hydrolysate. But it shouldn’t have “Isolate” in the name, otherwise it’s not the same.

LR


#3

[quote]London Runner wrote:
Hydrolised Whey is the same as Whey Hydrolysate. But it shouldn’t have “Isolate” in the name, otherwise it’s not the same.

LR[/quote]

So is this whey hydrolysate?

www.allthewhey.com/hwpi10.html

(Sorry for advertising for competitors, but I’d like to know specifics)


#4

Why don’t you contact the company for info on their product?

FWIW, from what I can tell it’s the product does not have a high degree of hydrolysis.


#5

To be honest, I don’t know. I’ve never come across a Whey protein that is Hydrolised, and Isolate at the same time. I don’t know how that works.

I looked at the label and it doesn’t say anything about it being a blend of 2 types of protein, so I’m a little confused.

Sorry I can’t help.

LR


#6

[quote]London Runner wrote:
To be honest, I don’t know. I’ve never come across a Whey protein that is Hydrolised, and Isolate at the same time. I don’t know how that works.

I looked at the label and it doesn’t say anything about it being a blend of 2 types of protein, so I’m a little confused.

Sorry I can’t help.

LR[/quote]

Me too, hence the thread. It seems insanely cheap compared to the other sources of whey hydrolysate I’ve seen which is why I’m skeptical.

However, the product description says:

[quote]Hydrolyzed Whey Protein Isolate (HWPI) is derived from whey protein isolate which has been subjected to treatment with the digestive enzyme known as protease.

This enzymatic process has the effect of shortening the protein and polypeptide chains in order to accelerate their absorption into the bloodstream. This process is sometimes referred to as â??partial pre-digestionâ?? and reduces the residence time of ingested protein in the stomach prior to breakdown into itâ??s component amino acids which is a necessary step before the protein can be transported in the bloodstream to the muscles. This is an ideal product for aiding rapid muscle recovery post a strenuous workout due to the faster availability of the required amino acids.[/quote]

That sounds like hydrolysate to me. But what do I know?


#7

Actual whey hydrolysate costs nearly 2x as much as isolate per pound. I’m also unaware of any company that sells hydrolosate in any large quantities.

I read somewhere that the “highest quality” protein was 27% hydrolosate and because the cost from the manufacturer was so great, they stopped selling it. The price was just too high to make any reasonable profit.

Basically what I’m saying is I think that product is not what it claims to be.

You are better off just going with whey concentrate, there really is no significant difference between the three.


#8

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
You are better off just going with whey concentrate, there really is no significant difference between the three.[/quote]

I agree with everything you said until you got to this point.

There is a huge difference between a good hydrolysate and a concentrate.


#9

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
You are better off just going with whey concentrate, there really is no significant difference between the three.[/quote]

This is not correct.


#10

[quote]HK24719 wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
You are better off just going with whey concentrate, there really is no significant difference between the three.

I agree with everything you said until you got to this point.

There is a huge difference between a good hydrolysate and a concentrate.[/quote]

he means to say that there is no appreciable difference in results. assuming you have even half way decent nutrition for every other meal of the day, your pre/peri/post workout meal is not a game breaker as far as getting the physique you want.

hydros are pretty unnecessary though in any situation really. unless you do only a postw.o. meal nothing pre/peri, which is just plain dumb.


#11

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
You are better off just going with whey concentrate, there really is no significant difference between the three.[/quote]

There’s a massive difference.

In fact the Amino Pulsing in CT’s new super program is based solely on the different absorption speeds of proteins and nutrients.

LR


#12

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
he means to say that there is no appreciable difference in results. assuming you have even half way decent nutrition for every other meal of the day, your pre/peri/post workout meal is not a game breaker as far as getting the physique you want.[/quote]

Really? Maybe you should tell Coach Thibs and Biotest this, as they’re just about to release a program based on on the sole principle of perfect peri workout nutrition!

Again, really? See above post, and read;

LR


#13

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Actual whey hydrolysate costs nearly 2x as much as isolate per pound. I’m also unaware of any company that sells hydrolosate in any large quantities.

I read somewhere that the “highest quality” protein was 27% hydrolosate and because the cost from the manufacturer was so great, they stopped selling it. The price was just too high to make any reasonable profit.

Basically what I’m saying is I think that product is not what it claims to be.

You are better off just going with whey concentrate, there really is no significant difference between the three.[/quote]

One of the advantages for UK residents is an online firm which offers WH at 20 UK Sterling per kilo. I’m sure you will appreciate it can be hard to source a kilo of shitty whey concentrate for that kind of money. I have been using their WH for a month and wouldn’t like to return to concentrate/isolate. For me there is a difference.


#14

I can’t remember the exact words for this but it goes something like this. Yes, hydrolysate digests faster but at the expense of promoting a positive nitrogen balance. I’m not sure exactly how this works but several sources mentioned it when I researched this a few weeks back. Concentrate digests slower, but does promote a positive nitrogen balance.

The difference between the two is very overrated. How much slower is is actually taking concentrate to get into the blood stream via digestion by enzymes? Not long.

Not to mention the fact that all of you arguing the case of hydrolysate are going off of pure theory. There are NO pure hydrolysate products on the market! Concentrate on the other hand has been around forever and has been giving real results over and over again.

I know everyone loves CT and he offers great info, but you are all basing your opinions just on what he has said. When/if the product comes out and you get the chance to try the WH product at $10+ a pound, I’ll be content with my $4 a pound.

It’s just a stupid argument. That’s like me saying testosterone enanthate is a better drug than testosterone cypionate. Why? Well because enanthate is the shorter ester so it will get in my system faster, cypionate will take an extra 1-2 weeks. That is true, but it doesn’t matter, test is test, the net gains will be the same.

None of you have had real world experience with WH so how can you argue how effective it is? Do tell.

EDIT: read below post, this is what I was talking about with the nitrogen balance, I didn’t explain it correctly in my own words.


#15

"Hydrolyzed whey - let’s break some myths :

"But what about hydrolization (breaking the proteins into smaller fractions like “di and tri peptides”) couldn’t this make whey into the superior product that it is supposed to be? What we found was that the hydrolyzed whey promotes less nitrogen retention than a similar non-hydrolyzed whey (a bad thing for a bodybuilder because a positive nitrogen balance is a must for anabolic muscle gain.) As a note: the hydrolyzed product that we studied was the BEST in the industry with a 27% hydrolization, no bitter taste, and at a cost from the manufacturer of greater than $8.00 per pound! Rest assured, NO manufacturer is selling a whey product where the raw materials for the protein cost anywhere close to $8 per pound.

Consider the above and you will quickly realize that supplement companies (who don’t actually manufacture the whey but buy the raw product from an actual manufacturer) are telling “some fibs” about whey protein. BV of 168–ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS! Real whey manufacturers sometimes still use BV to grade protein, and they always rate whey protein as a 94 BV! When you see a 168 BV claim listed on the label of several manufacturers’ whey protein, just turn your head, know you’re being scammed, and absolutely don’t buy!

Now let’s consider the other claims and statements about the di-and tri- peptides, about glutamine, and about the BCAAs (Branch Chain Amino Acids).

If hydrolization doesn’t further increase nitrogen retention, then what is the point of breaking protein into its smaller fractions like di- and tri- peptides? There IS a good reason for hydrolyzing a protein and having short peptides but it has nothing to do with BV/nitrogen retention. Instead, it has everything to do with how FAST and EASY the product is absorbed in the gut. Regular, undigested whey will be broken down into di- and tri-peptides via enzymes in a person’s gut and will be absorbed as such. The caveat is that the whole process just takes a little longer. Hydrolyzed products are basically only useful in baby food or hospital situations where a person’s digestive system is not functioning optimally or when protein delivery is needed very quickly.

Is there any benefit of a hydrolyzed product for the bodybuilder? To tell you the truth, I would have to say NO – except possibly for the benefit of having a quickly absorbed protein immediately after a workout to ensure the muscle tissue is flooded with nutrients in a timely manner albeit with a nitrogen penalty. Interestingly, this entire argument about hydrolized protein is academic as it is not currently sold on the market. Here’s why. One, the cost of hydrolyzed whey is outrageous and two, its taste is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. Trust me, if you’re want to induce vomiting, just take a little hydrolyzed whey protein!"


#16

[quote]London Runner wrote:
PB-Crawl wrote:
he means to say that there is no appreciable difference in results. assuming you have even half way decent nutrition for every other meal of the day, your pre/peri/post workout meal is not a game breaker as far as getting the physique you want.

Really? Maybe you should tell Coach Thibs and Biotest this, as they’re just about to release a program based on on the sole principle of perfect peri workout nutrition!

hydros are pretty unnecessary though in any situation really. unless you do only a postw.o. meal nothing pre/peri, which is just plain dumb.

Again, really? See above post, and read;

LR[/quote]

London, let me be perfectly frank with you.

You are a Level 4, meaning you have spent thousands of dollars on Biotest products. I believe Biotest does what it claims, offering the best ingredients albeit at a higher price.

So you’ve been working out a little over a year, and you have had access to a shit ton of the best supplements money can buy. So you should be huge now right?

Do you think you have a better physique than those who don’t use Biotest products? Those of us who use “inferior” products such as whey concentrate and grocery store Fish oil?

My protein comes in a big ass unmarked plastic bag, not in some shiny container. Does that mean my results are being hampered?

People are getting caught up in the bullshit, once again.


#17

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
People are getting caught up in the bullshit, once again.
[/quote]

There’s a big difference between getting caught up in bs and realizing the difference between different forms of protein.

Now, whether you think the difference is worth it to you is another story. From what I’ve read in your posts, you’re fortunate to have well above average genetics for building muscle so it’s quite possible that your body is more efficient at utilizing nutrients. In which case, you may be able to continue to make gains with nutrition that wouldn’t work for others.


#18

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
London, let me be perfectly frank with you.

You are a Level 4, meaning you have spent thousands of dollars on Biotest products. I believe Biotest does what it claims, offering the best ingredients albeit at a higher price.[/quote]

The amount of money I’ve spent on Biotest products (yes in the thousands) does not equate to the amount of Biotest products I’ve actually used. I’ve only ever used 4-5 products;
HRX, Spike, Superfood, TRIBEX (2 bottles), and I just cracked open a bottle of Carbolin 19 yesterday.

Like I said above, even though I basically bought a lot of Biotest products (11-T, Alpha Male etc) I haven’t used them, so your logic fails, but I appreciate that you don’t know what I’ve used, and why I haven’t used most of the stuff I’ve bought.

[quote]Do you think you have a better physique than those who don’t use Biotest products? Those of us who use “inferior” products such as whey concentrate and grocery store Fish oil?

My protein comes in a big ass unmarked plastic bag, not in some shiny container. Does that mean my results are being hampered?

People are getting caught up in the bullshit, once again.

[/quote]

No I don’t think I have a better physique because I use Biotest products, but my guess is that your asked this question when your thought I’d been using the whole Biotest arsenal, which I haven’t.

I’ve used cheap Whey Concentrate, and fish oil from the local “health shop” and now source my protein from the same place that ‘James Brawn’ mentioned above, and I get my fish oil from the same place and sometimes rotate it with another brand. I’m not a regular user of Biotest Proteins or Flameout (they are great products, but cost does not permit using them as much as I would need them).

My proteins also come in large unmarked sealed bags, BUT I know the quality is great, and I’ve noticed a massive difference in a High Quality Whey Isolate compared to a standard quality Whey Concentrate.

Because I’ve personally noticed the difference, I don’t know how you can say it’s getting caught up in the bullshit.

Would you settle for an inferior AAS because it has the same label, or the same sounding name?

LR


#19

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
None of you have had real world experience with WH so how can you argue how effective it is? Do tell.
[/quote]

How can you say this? Just because you can’t get it, or Biotest haven’t released their own version, it doesn’t mean that people haven’t used it, or are not using it right now.

If you look in this thread;

You’ll find a whole load of people that have sourced and tried both Hydolised Whey and Hydolised Casien.

Hydrolised Whey is what is in Surge Recovery, and the place that I source My Protein from in the UK also sells;

Hydrolised Whey,
Whey Isolate, and
Whey Concentate.

LR