T Nation

HW Fighters, What's the Deal???

I’m hoping someone will put me in my place here as I probably have no clue what I’m talking about.

I consider myself a fan of MMA. I order cards from time to time and somewhat follow the sport. Really my first memories of this stuff is from watching Tim Silva and thinking how boring he was to watch.

Aside from Brock, I can’t think of one HW guy who is super explosive and just comes out ready to fight. Just like boxing, so many of these guys just lay on each other and the fights are dull.

Now, I’ve never been in a fight in my life. I don’t know shit about fighting/boxing/judo/bjj/anything! However whenever I see these fights I think to myself, “Hell, I could do better than this, these guys are a disgrace” Not only are the fights boring but they look like shit!

At 6"4 and 240-250 I’m fairly big, I still feel tiny however. I know I’m stronger than probably 90% of the guys in that weight class in the sport and I think I’ve become a pretty good athlete in the past 3 years.

In the end, what I’m really asking you guys is this. If I spent a year traing boxing/striking/wresting really hard, how bad would I still get my ass kicked? I know that BJJ is just a huge huge part of this sport and it takes a long time to master.

I love strength athletics but I’m pretty sure that I don’t have the time or genetics to get my bodyweight where it needs to be to compete at a serious level there. However, I still love winning, training and the pain that goes along with it.

Lastly, I may get punched in the face one time and hate it :slight_smile: Give it to me fellas!

Monopoly

why don’t you got check out a MMA gym and roll around for a bit, see how you do?

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
why don’t you got check out a MMA gym and roll around for a bit, see how you do?[/quote]

I’m sure I’ll get worked :slight_smile:

No worries there, just wanted to get some other opinions on wether or not the HW class is weak compared to the lighter classes, and how someone with no experience may fare.

You’d be surprised Monopoly. I have a student who is 16 years old and 16 stone of muscle. He wins grappling matches in spite of his lack of skills. While this may be great short term, he needs to develop the skills to continue this success.

You will probably do well when you first start rolling with lower level BJJ players etc but its up to you to realise that you need to develop your own game.

A personal example. I refused to start my grappling practice from anywere bet a sitting position for over 5 months because I knew I was weak off my back.Now nobody I train with wants to be in my guard as its become a high percentage position for me.

It seems that you are big and strong guy, whose size have kept him out of confrontation, and other things - out of a ring or mat, because your opinion about the HWs is not very understandable otherwise. Be sure that it’s really, really much harder than you think, and 1 year won’t be enough (I think even for a local show).

I think Fedor, Cro Cop and Arlovski are/were explosive guys, who can really seem fast and agile like middleweights, when in their top shape.

Being big, strong and athletic is really cool, and will definitely help, but I would say that having serious wrestling/striking/grappling background is better.

My experience can’t help me guess what’s the learning/progressing curve after more than 1 year, because that’s the amount of time I’ve trained. But I would say that it’s something like weight training - the first 3 months will make you 3 times better than you have been. After that it gets slower, but you’ll get more enthusiastic :slight_smile:

Your training in the gym would change - it’s likely that you’ll curse the day you’ve stepped on the mats at the 4rd minute of the 1st round rolling or wrestling. IMHO in the HW category it’s the hardest to find that sweet spot of enough cardio/enough power.

But by all means give it a try (training). If you like it, and keep progressing, give the fighting a try. Wish you all the best.

going off of what mldj said.

That sweet spot is the main thing for HWT. What will be your fighting weight, who knows. The great thing about MMA is that it’s all about exposing weaknesses in your self to improve and recognizong them in your opponent.

Depending on your body type/ structure certain skills will come easy some will take lots of work.

And yes, there aren’t that many dazzling hwts yet. Doesn’t mean you won’t run into a Carwin clone on your first bout. So train, prepare, and for the love of God make sure your conditioning is on point. Because from HWT to CWT, no one wants to watch a lay and pray match.

Oh and be open for change. After a year of solid training you might find yourself choosing to cut down to LHWT for the size advantage. Good luck.

A year isnt enough to compete more than locally.
That is like me- having wrestled for 10 years and played judo for close to 20-
D3, D1 and beyond -
thinking I would compete at a top level of power lifting in a year and getting 9 out of 9 with decent numbers.

Just like the lifts you need to get solid technique that comes from repetition but you know that.

to be honest its not a skill set that you can “pick up” in a year and the sport is rampant with fandom but that is cool too.

that being said take a boxing class or grappling as someone mentioned take a few MMA clases.

your an big strong dude, I have read some of your posts/numbers.
Your atheltics and work ethics will help allot and separate you from some untrained people.

Just like power or o-lifting it really is about the techniques.
but try it out , have some fun, roll, box,
get beat up a little issue some of your own
have fun, try it out.

kmc

Traditionally speaking it takes a minimum of five years for a good karate student to become a beginner black belt. Then after that you could spend many years further refining and honing your skills.

Nowadays most schools promote much faster than that, which is why there are so many mediocre blackbelts.

One year of training is what it should take just to make it to green belt. Which is a basic level where you could be dangerous and could hurt someone. But you are not going to have a lot of depth to your skill set and you are not going to have any skills refined.

As a generalization with one year when you spar with people you will see an opening and think ah there is an opening and it will be gone before you could do anything.

In the one to three year range is where you will start to see openings and instead of thinking ah there is an opening, your fist or foot will be in it before you even had chance to think. But over that time you are still going to miss openings and give up opportunities.

If you are thinking along the lines that you could spend a year training then just waltz in and take a title away from someone who has been training for years I would say you need to find a teacher who can beat some humility into you real quick.

Otherwise your ego will get in the way of your achieving your full potential. Or you might throw yourself to the wolves when you are not prepared for it and have a real short career.

I’m not sure what sort of MMA you’ve been watching if you think Brock is the most exciting heavyweight fighter.

Check out: Fedor, Cheick Kongo, Pat Barry, Aleksander Emelianenko, Werdum (ok, a little boring), Overeem as a HW, Kharitonov, Shane Carwin, Junior Dos Santos

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
I’m not sure what sort of MMA you’ve been watching if you think Brock is the most exciting heavyweight fighter.

Check out: Fedor, Cheick Kongo, Pat Barry, Aleksander Emelianenko, Werdum (ok, a little boring), Overeem as a HW, Kharitonov, Shane Carwin, Junior Dos Santos[/quote]

I like Cheick, but he’s a LHW, right? Fedor and Emelianenko are without question, studs. Have honestly not heard of the other guys, I will look on youtube tonight and check em out.

Sifu, I have no title hopes here bro! I know it would take far longer than 1 year for significant things to happen.

The things I see in Lesner is what I somewhat see in myself. The guy is just massive and brute strong, nobody else is near his weight. He’s also just so agressive which is fun to watch.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Monopoly

[quote]Monopoly19 wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
I’m not sure what sort of MMA you’ve been watching if you think Brock is the most exciting heavyweight fighter.

Check out: Fedor, Cheick Kongo, Pat Barry, Aleksander Emelianenko, Werdum (ok, a little boring), Overeem as a HW, Kharitonov, Shane Carwin, Junior Dos Santos

I like Cheick, but he’s a LHW, right? Fedor and Emelianenko are without question, studs. Have honestly not heard of the other guys, I will look on youtube tonight and check em out.

Sifu, I have no title hopes here bro! I know it would take far longer than 1 year for significant things to happen.

The things I see in Lesner is what I somewhat see in myself. The guy is just massive and brute strong, nobody else is near his weight. He’s also just so agressive which is fun to watch.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Monopoly
[/quote]

Dude,you have some serious research to do. Fedor and Emelianenko??

Cheick is HW, he fights at 240. As for Fedor and Emelianenko, I assume you mean Fedor and Alexsander Emelianenko, and yes, they are studs, especially Fedor. Alexsander is good, but is not as mentally tough as Fedor.

If you see things in Lesnar in yourself, then as suggested, you might want to get into martial arts then and see where it takes you. I agree, Lesnar is a monster. When he stood toe to toe with Couture in their fight a couple of months ago, he dwarfed Couture and I felt bad for Couture haha.

Shane Carwin took care of Gabriel Gonzaga last Saturday, and has proven himself to be one of the better HW fighters. Mir does stand a chance to beat Lesnar when they fight at UFC 100. However, I’m partial to Cheick Kongo myself, so I hope he gets a title shot soon.

[quote]Monopoly19 wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:

I like Cheick, but he’s a LHW, right? Fedor and Emelianenko are without question, studs. Have honestly not heard of the other guys, I will look on youtube tonight and check em out.

Sifu, I have no title hopes here bro! I know it would take far longer than 1 year for significant things to happen.

The things I see in Lesner is what I somewhat see in myself. The guy is just massive and brute strong, nobody else is near his weight. He’s also just so aggressive which is fun to watch.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Monopoly
[/quote]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Monopoly19 wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
I’m not sure what sort of MMA you’ve been watching if you think Brock is the most exciting heavyweight fighter.

Check out: Fedor, Cheick Kongo, Pat Barry, Aleksander Emelianenko, Werdum (ok, a little boring), Overeem as a HW, Kharitonov, Shane Carwin, Junior Dos Santos

I like Cheick, but he’s a LHW, right? Fedor and Emelianenko are without question, studs. Have honestly not heard of the other guys, I will look on youtube tonight and check em out.

Sifu, I have no title hopes here bro! I know it would take far longer than 1 year for significant things to happen.

The things I see in Lesner is what I somewhat see in myself. The guy is just massive and brute strong, nobody else is near his weight. He’s also just so agressive which is fun to watch.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Monopoly

Dude,you have some serious research to do. Fedor and Emelianenko?? [/quote]

Are you talking to me or Nikiforos? While they are both towards the end of their careers I think it would be hard to argue against them. If I have not made my point already, I’ve tried to state that I’m just a fan, not someone immersed in the sport.

A short list of BIG STRONG HW that aren’t boring to watch…

  1. Randy Couture
  2. Fedor Emelianenko
  3. Andre Arlovski
  4. Gabriel Gonzaga
  5. Shane MOTHER F’N CARWIN (should be #1)
  6. Cheick Congo (Sometimes)
  7. Alistair Overeem
  8. Heath Herring
  9. Cain Velasquez
  10. Bunch of other guys I can’t think of

[quote]Beershoes wrote:
A short list of BIG STRONG HW that aren’t boring to watch…

  1. Randy Couture
  2. Fedor Emelianenko
  3. Andre Arlovski
  4. Gabriel Gonzaga
  5. Shane MOTHER F’N CARWIN (should be #1)
  6. Cheick Congo (Sometimes)
  7. Alistair Overeem
  8. Heath Herring
  9. Cain Velasquez
  10. Bunch of other guys I can’t think of[/quote]

You forgot Hong Man Choi.

[quote]Monopoly19 wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Monopoly19 wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
I’m not sure what sort of MMA you’ve been watching if you think Brock is the most exciting heavyweight fighter.

Check out: Fedor, Cheick Kongo, Pat Barry, Aleksander Emelianenko, Werdum (ok, a little boring), Overeem as a HW, Kharitonov, Shane Carwin, Junior Dos Santos

I like Cheick, but he’s a LHW, right? Fedor and Emelianenko are without question, studs. Have honestly not heard of the other guys, I will look on youtube tonight and check em out.

Sifu, I have no title hopes here bro! I know it would take far longer than 1 year for significant things to happen.

The things I see in Lesner is what I somewhat see in myself. The guy is just massive and brute strong, nobody else is near his weight. He’s also just so agressive which is fun to watch.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Monopoly

Dude,you have some serious research to do. Fedor and Emelianenko??

Are you talking to me or Nikiforos? While they are both towards the end of their careers I think it would be hard to argue against them. If I have not made my point already, I’ve tried to state that I’m just a fan, not someone immersed in the sport.[/quote]

He probably meant that you aren’t that close to the sport, because Fedor’s last name is Emelianenko. Just like his brother’s - Alexander Emelianenko.

The fact that you haven’t heard of the majority of the good HWs explains the fact that you aren’t that impressed with anyone else than Brock (who is a fuckin’ monster).

About you and Brock. Chances are he’s stronger than you (he has around 30 lbs size advantage), and he has immensely better background than you (NCAA champion). He trained MMA for serious amount of time, before even getting his first fight, in K-1 event. He fought great against Couture and has a victory over Heath Herring, but he still managed to lose against Mir, and he still haven’t won against someone, who is bad matchup against him.

[quote]Beershoes wrote:
A short list of BIG STRONG HW that aren’t boring to watch…

  1. Randy Couture

  2. Fedor Emelianenko

  3. Andre Arlovski

  4. Gabriel Gonzaga

  5. Shane MOTHER F’N CARWIN (should be #1)

  6. Cheick Congo (Sometimes)

  7. Alistair Overeem

  8. Heath Herring

  9. Cain Velasquez

  10. Bunch of other guys I can’t think of[/quote]

  11. Randy - Not a true HW, he’s very light and at the end of his run, love seeing him fight though.

  12. Fedor - 29 and 1, not much else to say here. However, on the small side at 235.

  13. Andre - Something about him that just seemed lacking to me, not sure what honestly.

  14. Gonzaga - Just don’t like the way he fights, it’s a boring style to me

  15. Carwin - This would be another guy I’d aspire to be like. He trains out of the main gym here in Denver so I’m excited to check him out more. BIG, strong, quick and agressive.

  16. Cheick - Again, when I have seen him fight it’s been as a LHW. Like watching him however.

  17. Alistair - Wow, 40 fights. Still, at 6"5 and 230, that’s small to me

  18. Heath - Guy is not impressive to me. Record indicates a good fighter but I don’t like watching him fight.

  19. Cain - Didn’t see much on him.

When I think about a HW fighter, I think of a guy that needs to be rolled out in a cage. Somone at the top of the class or someone that has to cut to make the weight. A freak! Carwin and Lesner are the only guys I think of like that.

You put 2 guys that have a somewhat even skill set together and the guy that has a 40 or 50lb advantage has a big advantage.

Monopoly

[quote]mldj wrote:

The fact that you haven’t heard of the majority of the good HWs explains the fact that you aren’t that impressed with anyone else than Brock (who is a fuckin’ monster).

About you and Brock. Chances are he’s stronger than you (he has around 30 lbs size advantage), and he has immensely better background than you (NCAA champion). He trained MMA for serious amount of time, before even getting his first fight, in K-1 event. He fought great against Couture and has a victory over Heath Herring, but he still managed to lose against Mir, and he still haven’t won against someone, who is bad matchup against him.[/quote]

Dude, Brock would kill me! He is way stronger I’m sure and has a MUCH better background. I was just saying that I see things in him that are similar to me, and I like his style. He’s proof that if your not skilled at bjj you’ll lose.

Monopoly

[quote]Monopoly19 wrote:

  1. Alistair - Wow, 40 fights. Still, at 6"5 and 230, that’s small to me

Monopoly[/quote]

update Alistair has been on a bit of a bulk. In his last fight he was 253 and ripped.

http://www.yorkblog.com/mma/Overeem-Timeline.jpg

Cheick at 205? How long have you been watching MMA? He’s a HW, and weighing in at around 240.