[quote]treco wrote:
Other than crown or top of head vs face, why risk your head(brain or neck) as an offensive weapon?
When football players get carried out on a stretcher with varying amounts of paralysis, that should be instructive enough.[/quote]
From a standing perspective I tend to agree. On the ground it becomes a little safer.
Yeah I just can’t fathom why you’d actively make a decision to headbutt someone in the chest while standing.
thanks, boys!
A headbutt with the hardest part of your skull will break any nose if your’re locked up/in a clinch in a streetfight…IDK about the chest…if you are in battle with kevlar…go for it! Nobody ever suspects a headbutt
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]treco wrote:
Other than crown or top of head vs face, why risk your head(brain or neck) as an offensive weapon?
When football players get carried out on a stretcher with varying amounts of paralysis, that should be instructive enough.[/quote]
From a standing perspective I tend to agree. On the ground it becomes a little safer.[/quote]
Yes, but there is also a time and place for everything…even a headbutt to the chest.
[quote]Nate112 wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]treco wrote:
Other than crown or top of head vs face, why risk your head(brain or neck) as an offensive weapon?
When football players get carried out on a stretcher with varying amounts of paralysis, that should be instructive enough.[/quote]
From a standing perspective I tend to agree. On the ground it becomes a little safer.[/quote]
Yes, but there is also a time and place for everything…even a headbutt to the chest.[/quote]
True. But in most cases you’d still probably be better off going for the face with a headbutt, or using something else (knee, elbow/forearm, punch, or palmstrike) to center mass (the chest).
I am not as familiar with hung gar, but first and foremost see how good the instructor is. I dont care if its muay thai or krav maga, or shotokan, if the instructor does not have legit credentials you are better off elsewhere.
I worked out with a guy that was pretty versed in wing chun however. Now i had disregarded alot of kung fu as useless and outdated, especially considering I did it early on in my life, but i really liked the fluidity and quickness in some of thedrills (very very basic stuff) that he showed me. I would say things like this take alot of practice to make devestating and effective however.
As far as a headbut to the chest, by itself i would not utilize it. However combined with morote gari, or in wrestling a jack double(sp?) it can be effective. I know one of my buddies that wrestled in college showed me that marriage of techniques to apply to my morote gari. He basically drove his head into my stomach as he reaped my legs. It also doesnt put you as low to the ground as a traditional double leg and allows you to stomp someone out. perhaps kmncy can comment more on this as he is much more knowledgeable in grappling then i am.
The blocking with the elbows, ala crazy monkey is a good set up for this, defending your head and keeping your posture low as you come in. I think Holy mac’s perspecive on closing the distance and using knees and elbows must also be strongly considered as they are a great equalizer when it comes to size. Im not a big fellow, so if i tried to trade punches with a larger guy, regardless of my boxing skill it may not end well for me. However, if i can get in close and hit him in the face with a few elbows and clinch knees it could rapidly alter the course of the altercation. Only now in mma are we really starting to see how devastating people with good knee strikes can be, aldo, and overeem especially.
I think holy
[quote]666Rich wrote:
As far as a headbut to the chest, by itself i would not utilize it. However combined with morote gari, or in wrestling a jack double(sp?) it can be effective. I know one of my buddies that wrestled in college showed me that marriage of techniques to apply to my morote gari. He basically drove his head into my stomach as he reaped my legs. It also doesnt put you as low to the ground as a traditional double leg and allows you to stomp someone out. perhaps kmncy can comment more on this as he is much more knowledgeable in grappling then i am.
[/quote]
Yeah, that’s basically the same thing as the “blast/high” double that I was describing. Much better technique for an unfriendly surface (pavement, gravel, alley with broken glass, etc…) than a traditional double where you come down to your knee when “penetrating”. Just realize that if you do it hard (especially if the opponent doesn’t know how to breakfall) you will probably bounce your opponent’s head off the ground (possibly resulting in severe concussion or even death). If you’re on the battle field like Holy Mac may be, then it’s not a big deal. If you’re a civilian, then you’d better be sure that the level of force is sufficient to warrant that outcome.
Or how about Anderson? The hurting he put on Franklin (especially in their first fight) with his knees was epic.
One of the key concepts in fighting (especially real fighting) is that your first priority should be to protect your ability to see (eyes), breath (throat), and think (brain/head).
Yes it’s possible to stop someone with a good solid hook to the liver, or knee to the solar plexus, bladder, or groin. But most people who you encounter are not going to be Thai fighters, or skilled boxers and therefore won’t have the requisite power that it would take to actually finish someone with a single blow (maybe the groin would be an exception, but even then if your adrenaline is pumping and you are really motivated it’s possible to still keep fighting). The only targets that are actually going to completely put an end to your ability to continue fighting back in most cases are the above ones.
Crazy monkey, the Pensador, the “shield”, covering in boxing, etc… all seek to do this by using a very durable and biomechanically strong part of your body (your forearm(s)/humerus) to take the incoming force. These defenses also serve to cut-down on the timing requirements needed to work successfully, which is of great benefit, especially in high stress situations. In contrast things like parries, slips, shoulder rolls, traditional blocking systems, and other “precision” defensive tactics require much more timing and therefore distance to be able to work. They also don’t tend to work as well against someone just swinging wildly at you (which you are much more likely to encounter than someone who is throwing crisp straight punches or tight hooks).
That’s not to say that things like parries, shoulder rolls, and even traditional blocking systems can’t be effective given the right circumstances, enough training, or the right attributes though. Or that you shouldn’t learn “precision” defensive skills. It’s just that techniques like the “shield” will be more easily learned and applied by the majority of people, and work better at very close range where there is insufficient time to use “precision” defensive skills.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
True. But in most cases you’d still probably be better off going for the face with a headbutt, or using something else (knee, elbow/forearm, punch, or palmstrike) to center mass (the chest).[/quote]
totally agree.
in my case though my hands are being used to keep control of my long gun and pistol/knife.
if i am headbutting to the chest it is most likely to create enough distraction/space to draw my sidearm.
Situational relevance always comes into play of course. If say your opponent was much taller than you and your hands were occupied (like your example), then the chest might be the obvious choice. If they’re close to the same height, might as well aim for the face.
Ultimately IMO it’s best to learn what weapons are available to you, and then just apply whichever weapon is appropriate in that moment to the highest priority target that is available. That way you don’t develop “tactical tunnelvision” and instead just adapt to the situation.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Ultimately IMO it’s best to learn what weapons are available to you, and then just apply whichever weapon is appropriate in that moment to the highest priority target that is available. That way you don’t develop “tactical tunnelvision” and instead just adapt to the situation.[/quote]
FTW!
This is the most common sense fight advise I have ever read on these threads. Thanks Sentoguy