T Nation

HST & Renegade Training.

First I want to say that I loved Bryan Haycocks articles on HST. Amazing!!! Thanks for getting me back to looking at stuff by guys like Bompa, Fleck & Kraemer. When I first read their works I had the bodybuilding type split paradigm blinding me to the effectiveness of this type of training. I really like HST so far. Whoelse is using a periodized type of full body workouts?

Renegade training…recently I tried some of the exercises that the good Coach(John Davies) advocates. Man I like that stuff. So after this and a second mesocycle of HST I’m planning a mesocycle using alot of those types of movements. I’m just wondering if I have too many exercises in it for one workout…overkilling things like I usually do heres what I have come up with:

Warm up: 2 circuits of dumbbell swings,iron cross and squat pulls followed by a few rounds of rope work. (As per his last article.)

1.dumbbell snatch
2.Bent rows
3.Alternating Dumbbell Benchpress
4.One arm dumbbell rows
5.Side Bent Presses
6.towel chins
7.dumbbell stepups
8.gluteham raises(harop curls)
9.overhead squats
10.seated dumbbell power cleans
11.wood choppers(dumbbell)
12.leg raises with pike
13.Ab wheel
14.scorpian lifts
15.waiter’s bow
17.turkish getup
18.finish off with Davies stetching program

Okay almost 20 exercises!!! Before you call me a nut. I’m only planning 1 to 2 sets per exercise. Also I will be altering the weight from workout to workout keeping the reps low except for a few exercises. 3 workouts per week. Also remember my upper back is a priority and my lowerback is about as healthy as Enron. Okay not that bad but I have chosen the exercises(and order) based on weaknesses and injuries. I just know I adapt much faster to workload with full body workouts. So any comments are helpful. Any exercises you think I should eliminate? Order? Missing? John D. you out there? Thanks and good training everyone. :slight_smile:

I am about to start my first HST cycle, but I am very familiar with the program and have read a lot of posts on the thinkmuscle board also. I understand your enthusiasm, but I think that there are too many exercises even if you are only doing one set. Also, several of those lifts don’t quite fit well into the HST program with the need to increase weights. Maybe if you use several of the exercises that don’t fit well with HST (scorpion lift, ab wheel, etc.) you could do these at the beginning as part of your warm-up and then move to the lifts that fit well into an HST progression. I will be doing one set of the following for my HST program: one arm DB snatch, squats, incline sit-up, hyperextension, nautilus machine crunch, hammer strength incline, behind the neck press, hammer grip pull-down/pull-up, dips, machine row, lateral raise, DB curls and calf raises. I decided to do one set of multiple exercises rather than 2 sets of fewer exercises. Keep me posted on your progress with HST. Without trying it, I can’t judge the program, but the science and reasoning behind it is very well thought out.

Doh…yeah I was on crack when I wrote that. First I’m not combining a renegade type workout with HST. It’s just going to be renegade styled training. I guess I wasn’t clear on this. However I will be doing this after 2 mesocycles of HST. Now after posting I though duh…work out 4 days aweek and have 2 different training days and split the exercises up. Me so dumb sometimes. I would still like to hear John’s thoughts…on the NEW…4 day aweek with 2 different training days approach. :slight_smile:

I’m currently ending a cylce of HST. I’ve found it’s a great program so far, and no signs of overtraining. I do it as sort of a power-circuit, training opposing body parts as often as possible, doing the circuit twice. I’ve seen some good growth, to be honest, and the workout are killer, short, and productive.

The 15s are really tough if you’re not used to high reps…I thought I was gonna puke my first time. Tens are nice, got a great pump. The fives take no time at all, but hoisting really heavy weight, even at 5 reps, tends to kick the crap out of you. I’m doing negatives now, and a spotter is necessary for most exercises.

I've been training my legs one at a time during the negs, pushing out with both and then doing the eccentric with just one. The biggest problem I've been having is on the overhead DB press. I have the hardest time getting the dumbbells into position. I've been resting them on my thighs and kicking up, using momentum, but it' still a pain in the ass.

Biggest piece of advice I can give you is to take the time to test your maxes, if you don’t already know them. Not doing so will really mess you up when you 3 workouts into your 15s and realize (as you fail at 13 reps) that you still have 3 more workouts to go, increasing the wt each time…so figure that out or you’ll mess up the main argument of the program.
Next cycle I’m switching my movements; I think a different look will give me better growth, especially combined with strategic deconditioning.

Here’s a theory, though. I was thinking this would be a great program for cutting. If it’s designed to produce hypertrophy/anabolism, then it would stand to reason that HST would ber very effective at preventing atrophy/catabolism. On a reduced calorie cutting type diet, combined with Mag-10 or Methoxy-7, you could probably cut up nicely and hold on to most of your mass.

I applaud your enthusiasm - you certainly are going after it. I would however use those exercises within a template for a weekly format, look at a few variations of each movement and focus on less movements per workout. For instance look to switch up your “Side Press” with a “Windmill”. You might consider removing a few exercises such as dumbell rows or step-ups. I would replace the ab wheel in favor of “Dragon Flags”. Pay particular attention to the order, things like “Turkish Get Ups” and “Overhead Squats” need to go near the start because of the demands. If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask. In faith, Coach Davies

I am approaching the end of my second cycle of HST now. Ther first time around I ate to gain, did no cardio and gained 12.5lbs. This time, I ate big until I got to the 10s. I then ate at maitenance for the first week, and cut carbs to about 25% and calories to around 300-400 below maintenance starting the second week of 10s. I also added 3 sets of 20 rep DB snatches at the end of each lifting day to increase the workload, and 2 days of jumprope intervals. Now, I am dropping fat fairly rapidly while maintaining my weight (today I actually weighed in at my heaviest ever, but fluctuation is probably the reason). I can now see my abs again, the Tanita says my bf% is heading down (2%), and the pants are more lose around the waist, but not the hips and legs. You can absolutely use HST for maintaining muscle mass while cutting. I’m not sure if I have lost fat, gained more muscle, or both (I know, I know, but the numbers and mirror are saying otherwise). On another note, my strength is improving as well.

Trev, I am having the same issues with hoisting the DBs for the OHP and DB bench press. It sucks, but at least I know I’ve gotten much stronger since starting HST.


Thanks for the reply. I think I just had so much fun doing those types of movements I went alittle nuts. Seated dumbbell power cleans being my favorite…gluteham raises coming in second. I think Dragon Flags would kill my back. It’s an odd problem. As for order I was planing to use the turkish get up as a finisher. However since I have never done one maybe I should listen too you. Hehehhe. Much more thought is going to have to be put into this. Still alot of time to get it right. I’m going to add a little bag work too. Thanks again John. :slight_smile:

Yeah sometimes those 15’s can be murder especially when you go up in weight. I have on a few exercises kept the same weight for a few workouts when the jump would be too much to do ie: not a big selection(or can’t find them rrhhhh) of plates or a machine exercise. I too notice that I feel far less over trained. For instance. Usually when I warm up on the bikes my pulse is around 110 while I’m pedaling 100 or so rpms. Well last workout I checked and it was only 83. I’m not sure what that means. I will be starting on 10’s next week. MUST EAT MORE!!! Congrates on the gains Steve. Let me know how you guys do. :slight_smile:

whats a dragon flag anyone?

If you email me I will send you a photo of it. It is a tremendous abdominal exercise. In faith, Coach Davies

Doh hurt my back. Think it’s only a muscle pull this time. With the elimination of one exercise I should be okay. I think I did it in the gym but I’m not sure since I didn’t feel any pain in the gym. Time to eat. :slight_smile: