T Nation

HRT Protocol Help

Ok original protocol was 50mg test e 2x/wk, HCG 600ius 2x/wk, clomid 25mg 2x/wk, and .25mg anastrozole 5 day’s on 2 off. This gave me levels of 877 TT 210 FT 24 SHBG 28.9 E2. I felt great at this protocol for 4 months, but the services were over priced so I switched companies. They convinced me that I needed to up my dosages and its been down hill ever since.

Upped my test to 750mg test/wk divided doses, HCG 500ius 2x/wk, Anastrozole 1mg 3x/wk, and dropped the clomid. This gave me insane levels and made my E2 crash. It’s been nothing but trouble from fatigue, gyno symptoms(due to dropping the AI for 2wks),no load to blow and loss of all sex drive and capabilities. They then put me on Tamoxifen 40mg daily to combat gyno symptoms.

They are gone now and I’m taking 20mg daily and I’ve got my sex drive and load back. I just started 50mg test cyp 2x/wk 250Iu’s HCG EOD. I’m not sure when to check my E2 Its still low right now so no AI yet. How long should I wait to test all levels? Do I need the clomid or tamoxifen to stay fertile or is HCG good enough. I want kids in the future. Does the new protocol sound good?

Any comments are appreciated. I’m 30 years old 185lbs decent diet and good workout schedule. Problems are do to Steroids at a young age.

750mg a week is not Hormone Replacement in my opinion.

The original protocol looks good - except for what seems like excessive HCG. The norm is 200-250iu EOD or E3D. and the clomid+anastrozole combo seems a bit much (most just use anastrozole).

glad you stopped the new program.

What services were over priced on the original? Once you have your protocol and prescriptions, what service cost is there?

The new protocol looks ok, but if you felt great while on anastrozole, why not keep going at those levels?

Also you did not post what your blood tests were before and after the various treatments. Do you have those?

Clomid has severe estrogen side effects for some, killing libido and emotionalism.

hCG alone will keep the testes healthy for most. Suggest that you get a sperm count to confirm that if concerned.

High dose hCG can easily lead to excessive E2 levels, or E2 levels that are difficult or practically impossible to manage with anastrozole. You need some time to stabilize, then get E2 tested and go from there.

High or low E2 levels mess with ones mental health and libido.

No need to test for SHBG. When you get serum E2 into the lower 20’s, SHBG will take care of itself. Decent FT levels are proof of that.

FT numbers without ranges are useless.

[quote]oscar31280 wrote:

Upped my test to 750mg test/wk divided doses[/quote]

Wow

[quote]Scott M wrote:

[quote]oscar31280 wrote:

Upped my test to 750mg test/wk divided doses[/quote]

Wow
[/quote]

More like disaster.

Thanks Guy’s. I agree 750mg is not HRT. I just want to know what works for others I’m tired of experimenting and I don’t want to cause anymore damage than whats already done. The first company the meds just cost so much and I can’t find anyone who will help and accept my insurance. New place the meds are quite a bit cheaper.

I had to explain to this agency that I wasn’t doing this to get huge but to just feel good and to have somewhat of a libido for the sake of my relationship. In your opinion should I jump right into the new protocol minus the Ai until further tests if so about how long before my levels would somewhat stabilize or should I stop all meds and let my body level out and start again. I don’t want to crash.

Blood tests before any treatment E2 7.0, TT 381, FT 106. Next just clomid @ 50mg 3x/wk TT 524, FT 107, E2 60 this made me feel even worse. Next was the original dose with test e, clomid hcg and Ai as stated in my first post. Thanks.
I do appreciate your input and experiences.

Yes, its a disaster. I don’t know what to do.

Since you are talking about cost of services and agencies, I assume you are using one of those life extension foundations that make you get all your blood tests, drugs, etcs through them, correct? If so, those are ripoffs and there are much cheaper alternatives.

Check out the Finding an HRT Doc (or similar title) thread–it is stickied at the top of this forum.

If you felt awesome on your old protocol, try to push your current doctor (or agency) to prescribe the same. Self medication might be a last resort option since you know what you need and have obtained in the past, but definitely seek the legal route first.

Best wishes man.

maybe start by calling around to your local compounding pharmacies. They are a good source of HRT doctor referrals.

I was partially successful when I got a referral from a local compounding pharmacy. The doctor they referred me to was on my insurance, and he was open to new ideas (from this board and other source). I was able to talk him into trying out T-Cyp injections twice weekly plus he already had good ideas about HcG, Arimidex, DHEA, and Pregnenelone. I am with a new doctor now, just because I am a complicated case. All the numbers looked good and he had tried everything he knew, but I still wasn’t feeling right.

Just got off the phone with the doc and he agreed to the new protocol. We will retest levels in 4wks to see how the test has dropped and if I need to add some Ai to the plan. I will be taking 50mg test cyp 3x/wk and 250iu’s hcg eod. No clomid until its time to have children. Again thanks for sharing your experiences.

sorry, but I am stumbling over the part about Clomid being needed to have children. Is your new doctor saying that you need to get on Clomid when you are ready to have children? If so, I think I would be cautious about that doctor’s recommendations.

Clomid fights high estrogen. High estrogen does not greatly interfer with sperm count or mobility, does it? Even if Clomid does have an effect on your testicles, does it make sense that your testicles would just jump back to life after atrophying for 5+ years (or how ever long you decide to wait), or would the damage be irreversible by then?

HcG maintains the testicles by mimicing LH. Continued use of HcG is recommended to fight against atrophy/sterilization while on HRT.

Not saying that I would have to use it but it wouldn’t hurt. The Hcg alone should keep me fertile I’m told by current hrt doc and my local doc who is following what I am doing. They tell me it would be best to take it with my hrt protocol until I have children and then use only hcg. All because it helps my body to continue producing some of its own lh and fsh which are needed for sperm are they wrong. Me personally when I took clomid on the very first protocol I had huge load volume when I quit I noticed a definite decrease and now that I’m taking tamoxifen with the previous protocol its back up. It’s very full filling for me and my girl when I have a big finish.

[quote]oscar31280 wrote:
Just got off the phone with the doc and he agreed to the new protocol. We will retest levels in 4wks to see how the test has dropped and if I need to add some Ai to the plan. I will be taking 50mg test cyp 3x/wk and 250iu’s hcg eod. No clomid until its time to have children. Again thanks for sharing your experiences.[/quote]

Sounds like this guy is a pure goof ball and does not understand proper HRT protocols and how to properly evaluate hormones level. Being at 29 I would look at the cause of why your levels are low and then work from there. I would also need to see proper thyroid test and adrenal testing done as well to make sure all your hormones are using in synch.

IF you are located in the north east then it might be a good idea to look up Dr overbeck because he one of the best in the business at finding the root cause and balancing the body out. He has helped me after being to over 30 different dr’s who did not know listen. If you want you can Pm me and I will give you his contact information. He also is one of the few that takes certain insurance.

I’m located in Nebraska. I’m going to get all blood work done next week. I quit taking the high doses of testosterone for one week now and man I feel like I’m dieing. I really need someone who knows what they are doing no matter where I have to go any help finding someone that can get me healthy would be very much appreciated. I’ve searched and searched and got nowhere. Thanks

I can set you up with a doc in NE Kansas.

Please do.

[quote]oscar31280 wrote:
I’m located in Nebraska. I’m going to get all blood work done next week. I quit taking the high doses of testosterone for one week now and man I feel like I’m dieing. I really need someone who knows what they are doing no matter where I have to go any help finding someone that can get me healthy would be very much appreciated. I’ve searched and searched and got nowhere. Thanks [/quote]
Dr overbeck is one of the best and also he takes many types of insurances…

And how far away is Dr overbeck from Nebraska?