HRT - Progress and Questions

Pharma / TRT Testosterone Replacement
41

[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
I was told that excessive hcG can actually cause this ache. Ever hear of cases similar to this? I’m just wondering if I even NEED 400IU of hcG or if it’s causing more harm than good.

hcG monotherapy brought me from sub-300 to over 600 total test, which if i understand correctly, confirms I’m secondary.[/quote]

But where was your estrodial in the mean time?
some people feel good on HCG monotherapy, but my goal would be to find out what is causing the problem in the first place and use HCG as temporary stop gap till cause is found and resolved.
Over time people can be come sensitize to it yes that is why smalle dosages more frequently are more appropriate in some cases to keep sensitivity down.

42

[quote]Hardasnails wrote:
But where was your estrodial in the mean time?
some people feel good on HCG monotherapy, but my goal would be to find out what is causing the problem in the first place and use HCG as temporary stop gap till cause is found and resolved.
Over time people can be come sensitize to it yes that is why smalle dosages more frequently are more appropriate in some cases to keep sensitivity down.[/quote]

Well, seemingly my estradiol was on its way skywards, admittedly.

And I am fully interested in what is causing the problem. I realize you’ve said adrenals and thyroid, and I would like to get these tested, but being in Canada I’m a little unsure yet how to do so.

43

You can go on line to lef.org and have them ordered through them.
Or directlabs.com

all you need is ft4 and ft3 for thyroid for now.
adrenal cortisol saliva can be ordered through ZRT.

44

I’m pretty sure I’ve figured out the ache issue.

I recently began a jogging regime again. When I got back this morning, I realized it’s my groin that’s been sore due to the new type of abuse my body’s been forced to absorb.

Since receiving the shot of t-eth, I haven’t had the same issues I had with the transdermal in approx the same amount of time. So that’s good. Still going to push for at least 1 shot a week instead of every other week, though. And obviously question e2 management.

Question:

If hcG mono 400iu mon/wed/fri doubles a man’s total t to about 600, and a transdermal t gel actually lowers it marginally, is it possible injected t brings his levels higher, or in theory would they remain about the same as with the t gel? Probably different, as there are no absorption variables at play, correct?

45

T gel only lowers T for those who do not absorb it properly or the dose is simply too small.

You cannot make any assumptions about 400iu 3 times per week. Everyone responds differently. One safe assumption is that larger amounts can jack up E2 levels and that anastrozole cannot manage those situations. Inject more to increase T and leave hCG at 250 EOD or 3x/week.

The problem with T-gel is that one absorbs 10% of the T at best, often less. With injections, there no doubt about delivery. Injected T can create any level of T.

46

there are a number of studies that show excess HcG to desensitize leydig cells in the testicles and HcG mimics TSH and can cause symptoms of hyperthyroidism. (personal experience here, plus what I found with a few google searches “HcG mimics TSH” or “excess HcG leydig”.)

now what is excess? for me it was .5iu E3D.

47

Funny side-note:

I work for a large financial institution in Toronto, Ontario - cost for Androgel: 250 dollars per MONTH.

Cost for test E - 14 bucks.

LOL.

48

Update:

Been on 200mg test every other week for 2 shots now. No reoccurence of the fatigue/hitting the wall that I did on Androgel. Getting E2 tested 3 days after 3rd shot. Also moving to once a week instead of once every other week (100mg).

I am somewhat saddened that I was on antidepressants for 10 fucking years when I didnt have to be.

49

just had a guy low T and vitamin D corrected vitamin D when from 200 to 750.
I have several clients from canada and all of them had issues with low vitamin D so after adding in vitamin D alot of their symptoms alleviated. Simple things can go a long way.

50

[quote]Hardasnails wrote:
just had a guy low T and vitamin D corrected vitamin D when from 200 to 750.
I have several clients from canada and all of them had issues with low vitamin D so after adding in vitamin D alot of their symptoms alleviated. Simple things can go a long way.[/quote]

Hardasnails, are you a HRT practitioner? I’ve seen you refer to having clients before, and was curious.

When I next see my GP I plan on requesting several labs, thyroid and Vitamin D among them. I can’t seem to locate a decent direct-to-patient lab that works with Canadian residents.

So my next shot is Tuesday, and the last few nights haven’t been great. I’ve been acutely restless when trying to fall asleep, mood hasn’t been great, etc. Possible effect of the flucuation of T back down?

I have to start injecting myself but I’ve got some fears about hitting a nerve, etc. Once I get over those fears, I will start injecting more often.

51

Had my latest lab results today.

Chief concerns: fatigue/very emotional/irritable

Only labs taken were:

Total testosterone: 1040 ng/dL
Estradiol: 70pg/mL

Doctor (thankfully) prescribed Arimidex 1mg a week in divided doses.

Also gave me the green light to inject sub-q.

Protocol now:

100mg test-e every Tuesday
400IU hcG mon/wed/fri
0.5mg Arimidex 2x/week (open to suggestion on days, doctor says it’s not critical)

I guess the E2 levels explain why the first half of my 2 week cycle was me feeling insanely emotional (crying at work type emotional lol) and the latter half was me being completely wiped out.

Looking forward to what the adex will provide.

52

If you are injecting yourself, why not do it more often (2-3 times per week) as this will control your test response and lower E2 naturally?

Also, you are injecting 4 times a week (3x hcg, 1x test). Would probably make more sense to just do them concurrently (3x week each on same days).

The 2x week arimidex may cause fluctuations due to its 2 day half life. Are your pills 1 mg and you’re breaking them in half? May be best to quarter them and take EOD. Compounded liquid arimidex would make dosing easiest.

53

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
If you are injecting yourself, why not do it more often (2-3 times per week) as this will control your test response and lower E2 naturally?[/quote]

Likely I will do so. I’ve been on every OTHER week for my first three injections, so thought I’d move to once a week for a couple, guage my response (this is becoming a bit of a hobby for me, lol) and then move towards 2x a week.

[quote]
The 2x week arimidex may cause fluctuations due to its 2 day half life. Are your pills 1 mg and you’re breaking them in half? May be best to quarter them and take EOD. Compounded liquid arimidex would make dosing easiest. [/quote]

Wasnt aware of the short half-life, thanks. Yes, they are 1mg pills and I’ve got a splitter. My benefits fully cover the adex, but won’t cover a compound, so I’m going to suffer with splitting. I’ll consider moving to EOD - perhaps on the same days as my hcG.

KSman also suggested moving to 250IU hcG EOD or 300IU 3x/week.

54

Update:

Possibly placebo, but after taking my first adex this morning, I have felt…better.

I have a good feeling about this. Of course, after having E2 in the 70’s, any change might be a good one, lol.

55

Update time, hooray!

A somewhat challenging road to my current protocol seems to have been worth it. I am basing this on how I feel and trust that the labs will confirm. Although, I do have one lab result - my wife and I are seeing an RE to help us achieve a pregnancy and he’s been interested in my E2 levels for a reason I’m unclear on, but I’ll take the opportunity to keep on top of it. E2 mesures…drum roll…22pg/mL. At one point it was nearly 80.

Protocol:

Sunday/Tuesday/Friday: 300IU hCG - subQ
Tuesday/Friday: 50mg testosterone enanthate - subQ
Tuesday/Friday: 0.25mg anastrozole

I am settling in for the next few months to see how I feel as my body recovers from 10 years of low T. I am also planning on asking my GP to give me a req for a ton of bloodwork to see where everything lies concerning and outside of your basic T/E levels.

Gym performance is quite nice. Energy levels, quite nice. Ability to adapt to stress, quite nice. Libido - I can basically have sex whenever I choose - I read stories about these guys doing it 3 times a day on weekends and twice a night during the week, and I’ve come to the conclusion they are either full of shit or …nah, they’re full of shit. In any event, I wouldnt WANT to have that much sex. We do it probably 5 times a week and that’s golden with me. A far cry from not being able to get it up 4 years ago.

What I plan on having a look at, above and beyond TT/Bio-T/E2, which my guy already asks for regularly:

-Prolactin
-DHT
-PSA
-TSH
-T3/Free T3
-T4/Free T4
-Reverse T3
-Cortisol
-Pregnenolone
-DHEA-S
-Vitamin D_25
-CBC
-Hematocrit
-Lipids
-Glucose

Also, I am considering an investigation into my pituitary, because I’ve been this way since my early 20’s and seeing as that’s pretty early on, an MRI wouldn’t hurt. From my understanding, the pituitary is also involved in sperm production, and I have a severely low count of 2 million per mL. Hence part of the reason we are seeing an RE.

I’d like to try hMG, but insurance won’t cover and it costs about 2500 a month.

Suppose that’s it for now. Comments/input as always welcome.

56

Dude congrats! That “bro science” for E2=22 sounds like it is doing you some good! Mine was 30 on my last test and I’ve increased my anastrozole a bit so hopefully I’ll get down to optimal as well. You were able to achieve that with only 0.5 mg a week? That is pretty cool since you were once at 80!

What are your current T values? Or did they just test E2?

Good luck with the family making man…glad to hear your feeling a lot better.

57

“Bro science”? Why don’t you crawl under some other rock.

58

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Dude congrats! That “bro science” for E2=22 sounds like it is doing you some good! Mine was 30 on my last test and I’ve increased my anastrozole a bit so hopefully I’ll get down to optimal as well. You were able to achieve that with only 0.5 mg a week? That is pretty cool since you were once at 80!

What are your current T values? Or did they just test E2?

Good luck with the family making man…glad to hear your feeling a lot better.[/quote]

Thanks mate - yeah, I found that odd too, the 0.5mg a week thing - I suppose that would make me a bit of an overresponder to anastrozole, but provided things don’t bounce around too much, i’ve overresponded in a positive/lucky way. Good. About time I had a bounce go my way, hahaha.

59

[quote]KSman wrote:
“Bro science”? Why don’t you crawl under some other rock.[/quote]

I could be wrong of course, but I think our friend was taking a poke at that idiotic post bricknyce made recently about all there being here is “bro science” - obviously this is not the case, as it’s your guidance that was a key component to getting me to where I am.

60

[quote]NeelyDan wrote:

[quote]KSman wrote:
“Bro science”? Why don’t you crawl under some other rock.[/quote]

I could be wrong of course, but I think our friend was taking a poke at that idiotic post bricknyce made recently about all there being here is “bro science” - obviously this is not the case, as it’s your guidance that was a key component to getting me to where I am.[/quote]

Correct. It was 100% jocular. Easy there KS.