T Nation

HRT Options

I just wanted to get peoples opinions on here. I have read thru the threads and have decided on injections. My doctor will allow that but only if I come into the office every two weeks. I tried to use the angle that my wife is in the medical field but he refused.I think I might just opt for the gel since they won’t let me home inject. Which leaves me with androgel, since I can’t afford the co pays for a specialist every two week and missing work.
Lets hear some opinions. To recap my total test was 286.

I think your situation is common with a lot of doctors. They get suspicious of some people who want to self-inject and endo doctors think that a patient who is an athlete inquiring about TRT usually sets them off because the endo thinks the patient is looking for legal steroids. Other doctors don’t want the liability of letting a patient treat themselves with the doctor signing off on it. They also don’t want to lose money on office visits that they can charge your insurance company.

From what I have read from those that do the injections there needs to frequent injections. KSman, VR, E-loo and others could elaborate on this in greater detail. I encourage you to read more on this forum.

Having a T shot done every two weeks isn’t going to do you much good. Given the choice between Androgel daily and a T shot every two weeks, I would go with the Androgel because you have a consistent flow of T going in you. If you don’t respond to transdermals then you need to find a doctor who is open to injections on a frequent basis.

I just got a call from the urologists nurse and she is going to make sure my wife can inject me then I am set. I have read this entire thread, great info in here. Keep it up guys. I will chime in tomorrow and let you guys know how it goes.

Test depo 200mg every two weeks…I will have to do some research now.My wife gave me a 200mg shot in the glutes at the doctors office today so I can inject at home from here on out.

[quote]rfish1966 wrote:
Test depo 200mg every two weeks…I will have to do some research now.My wife gave me a 200mg shot in the glutes at the doctors office today so I can inject at home from here on out.[/quote]

Many here will have the expectation that every two weeks will not make you feel right in the long run. Once a week is considered torture by many. As long as you inject at home, you should be free to inject your 100mg/wk as you see fit. How you feel is the most important issue.

I had a bad time at once per week and now inject 28mg EOD with #29 .5" .5ml insulin syringes in the vastus lateralis. This is not an option for those with too much fat in that area. For such small volumes, .5" IM is deep enough.

Read up on TRT & AI issues. Read up on HCG issues.

[quote]rfish1966 wrote:
Test depo 200mg every two weeks…I will have to do some research now.My wife gave me a 200mg shot in the glutes at the doctors office today so I can inject at home from here on out.[/quote]

Every 2 weeks will not cut it. You will feel great at first, but eventually you will crash. E will go up and so will SHBG, and your T levels will crash.

Most report from lab work that T levels fall by the 5TH DAY after injects. So once every 2 weeks will leave you possibly feeling worse than when you started. You want to look into either more frequent injects with smaller doses/needles(every 3rd day, or every other day) or a transdermal(androgel/creams). If you respond well to a transermal(some do) then that is the best route to go.

You want to also look into obtaining hCG and get your estradoil checked out. It is also known as e2. Quest diagnostics is the best lab company to work with.

Great threads to read

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1399735

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1135091

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1200966

VR
Thanks for the reply, I am going to try once a week but my wife works in another office and says she see’s people like me always wanting to push it…one battle at a time I guess. This whole forum is great, you and Ksman and a few other are a great source of info and experience.

P.S. She has agreed to once a week after looking at the half life and did her own research on HCG and wants me to ask the doctor for it. I did feel pretty good yesterday. First time in a long time I actually took her to dinner instead of just going home to sit on the couch.

[quote]rfish1966 wrote:
VR
Thanks for the reply, I am going to try once a week but my wife works in another office and says she see’s people like me always wanting to push it…one battle at a time I guess. This whole forum is great, you and Ksman and a few other are a great source of info and experience.

P.S. She has agreed to once a week after looking at the half life and did her own research on HCG and wants me to ask the doctor for it. I did feel pretty good yesterday. First time in a long time I actually took her to dinner instead of just going home to sit on the couch.[/quote]

Great news. Taking control in your own health and well being is empowering.

If you can hold off starting injects until you get hCG, that would be best. You can literally damage the testicals, permanently, from T use without hCG. You want to preserve testicals not just for looks sake, but you want to keep your prior existing T levels. In fact, hCG will boost preexisting T levels. Add in the T you will be injecting, and you will be feeling great.

After you get that sorted out, then move into more frequent injects.

Wow, great timing…found out I am just about sterile. I asked about HCG and he was very receptive and stated it was important to keep on the test and he just wanted to check treatment protocol on it. I have heard that guys have had kids on HCG so maybe there is hope.

I blamed everything on the restless legs all these years and after two days into test that seems %80 better, what really pisses me off though is how long I felt like hell and I literally got shrugged (in my head aparently) at by a few different docs…I could rant on but from what I have seen it’s common.

[quote]rfish1966 wrote:
Wow, great timing…found out I am just about sterile. I asked about HCG and he was very receptive and stated it was important to keep on the test and he just wanted to check treatment protocol on it. I have heard that guys have had kids on HCG so maybe there is hope.

I blamed everything on the restless legs all these years and after two days into test that seems %80 better, what really pisses me off though is how long I felt like hell and I literally got shrugged (in my head aparently) at by a few different docs…I could rant on but from what I have seen it’s common.[/quote]

I have been on 250iu HCG EOD SQ for 8 months. My doc took me to that from 250iu twice a week after I found this for him to read:

http://dspace.hsl.washington.edu/dspace/bitstream/2012/52/1/JCEM_2005_Low_Dose_Human.pdf

Print for your self and provide hard URL to your doc and hard copy as well when you meet next.

Thanks, he was pretty receptive so I will see what he has to say about it.

[quote]Raw Power wrote:

Having a T shot done every two weeks isn’t going to do you much good. Given the choice between Androgel daily and a T shot every two weeks, I would go with the Androgel because you have a consistent flow of T going in you. If you don’t respond to transdermals then you need to find a doctor who is open to injections on a frequent basis.[/quote]

Bump. If those are your 2 choices, go for the Androgel. Put it on right after a hot AM shower. Take 500 mg of Niacin (to get a flush) right before your shower.

Alternatively, squit the gel out on to a plate for half an hour, to let the alky evaporate. Then, put the gel on your balls. Test with one drop first —it burns if the alky isn’t gone. Better absorbtion there.

Look into a cheap AI. You may not even need Androgel, though.

He was not receptive about the AI idea but I think I will try to find a source for it just in case. I would rather not have to go see him for that if I don’t have to.

[quote]rfish1966 wrote:
He was not receptive about the AI idea but I think I will try to find a source for it just in case. I would rather not have to go see him for that if I don’t have to.[/quote]

I do research in this area and I buy my research chemicals from ChemOne.

[quote]rfish1966 wrote:
He was not receptive about the AI idea but I think I will try to find a source for it just in case. I would rather not have to go see him for that if I don’t have to.[/quote]

As a research chem, your costs for AI will be less than a co-pay if you had insurance coverage. Many insurance companies will not cover AI.

Research chem…I am assuming that means some place that provides these for studies or something? Bear with me I am pretty new to this. I Read everything in the 35 and older thread and about halfway thru the steroid thread. Information overload.

[quote]rfish1966 wrote:
Research chem…I am assuming that means some place that provides these for studies or something?[/quote]

Check it out and see for yourself. I’ve heard that some people use themselves as research subjects. I would never do or recommend such a thing. Only an idiot would tell someone else to do something like that. In fact, I’m telling you not to do it. I don’t want to be charged with practicing medicine without a license or get sued by you or anyone else. I’m just saying that I’ve heard of people using themselves as research subjects.

Places that sell research chemicals make it clear that what they sell is for research purposes only and that is the limit of their responsibility. Naivete and self-medicating is a dangerous combination.

Helping someone self-medicate is a legally grey area at best, so be cool. If someone makes a suggestion, check it out first and ask thoughtful questions second.

Understanding Research Chemicals

Sorry if I came off snarky in my post. One of my gym partners is now facing legal problems because of something he said to a fellow gym member. No good deed goes unpunished.

There is a drug called Arimidex. It is only available by prescription. Arimidex is a registered trademark of the AstraZeneca group of companies.

There is a chemical called anastrozole. It is legally sold “over the counter” as a chemical. It is not sold as a drug.

Arimidex and anastrozole are the same chemical.

That doesn’t mean they are the same in every way. It is possible that the medicinal form of a chemical has additives or has been diluted significantly from the “pure chemical” version. Before you put anything into your body, know what you’re doing.

I have a PDR (Physician’s Desk Reference) at home that I use to check every medication given to me by my doctor. I often find important information that my doctor forgets to tell me (or doesn’t know about). I never trust anyone when it comes to my health and well being.

I find out for myself what is what and then I decide if I am going to take it or not. I wouldn’t trust a doctor any more than I would trust a guy from my gym. Both may give me recommendations, but I never accept anything blindly from anyone. Use what you learn here and elsewhere as a jumping off point to your personal education. Be careful and be safe!

Well I felt like dog crap today so I decided to have my wife inject me in the quad, anyone had a little blood leak? Nothing came up when aspirating. Felt nothing.

Thanks happy. I finished the steroid forum and doing some more reading on research chems is next for me.