T Nation

HRT in Younger Guys

From the looks of a handful of posts, seems like most people on HRT are in or past their early thirties, and understandably like to reign in the testosterone levels of years back.

I would sure as hell like to even get there.

Heres some background for a fuller picture. I suspected low T levels because I am 23 with very little body hair, the inability to even cast a 5 oclock shadow, sound about 15, and look at best 2-3 years older than that. And in prime college years, I am very successful with women (sarcasm). Paradoxally, I`m decently muscular and have low body fat percentage. The latter is perhaps due to lifting and martial arts.

Test results: total; 480 ng/dL, free; 104 pg/mL, bioavailable; 240ng/dL.

After about 3 months of Androgel, I noticed slightly more body hair all around and sprouted facial spikes. The odd thing is that I apparently stand taller by half an inch and, no joke, went from 170 to 190 pounds. Seems like I got fatter and buffer–both sides effect I sure as hell didn`t mind. New total: 550 ng/dL. WTF?

The direct issue: I`m frustrated with my low numbers for my age. Maybe I should press my physician for Testim or a larger concentration of Androgel.

But then what? Should I try Alpha Male and such? Is it likely I am going to stay on gels and creams for life?

[quote]Jackal1 wrote:
From the looks of a handful of posts, seems like most people on HRT are in or past their early thirties, and understandably like to reign in the testosterone levels of years back.

I would sure as hell like to even get there.

Heres some background for a fuller picture. I suspected low T levels because I am 23 with very little body hair, the inability to even cast a 5 oclock shadow, sound about 15, and look at best 2-3 years older than that. And in prime college years, I am very successful with women (sarcasm). Paradoxally, I`m decently muscular and have low body fat percentage. The latter is perhaps due to lifting and martial arts.

Test results: total; 480 ng/dL, free; 104 pg/mL, bioavailable; 240ng/dL.

After about 3 months of Androgel, I noticed slightly more body hair all around and sprouted facial spikes. The odd thing is that I apparently stand taller by half an inch and, no joke, went from 170 to 190 pounds. Seems like I got fatter and buffer–both sides effect I sure as hell didn`t mind. New total: 550 ng/dL. WTF?

The direct issue: I`m frustrated with my low numbers for my age. Maybe I should press my physician for Testim or a larger concentration of Androgel.

But then what? Should I try Alpha Male and such? Is it likely I am going to stay on gels and creams for life?
[/quote]

How the heck did you get your doc to write a script for you with those numbers? Yea, there not good, but hell, there not really that bad either. Lots of guys in their 20’s have around 500’s total test.

Better yet, pass that info on your doc along Im sure plenty are interested.

I have no damn iodea how you got a script either. 400 + isnt that bad and could largely be due to diet and over training and stress. Id halt what you are doing get on a proper PCT and get yourself RIGHT. You realize your talking LIFE here life long replacement if you just keep going. Its a bitch. Gets old.

I would have killed for those #'s.

Thats my 2cc,m
Phill

Have to add what other test did this so called doc have done to find out the cause??

are you Primary, secondary, or heck both??

Was amn MRI done if it was primary??

Doesnt seem like levels are low enough anyway to warrant a worry ar classify you as any of the above but they should have been taken.

What actions were taken??

Best of luck
Phill

“I have no damn iodea how you got a script either.”

Haha. 400 is in the “normal” range for someone between the age of voting and dentures, but not for 23. There’s an article I’ll pull on this… The script–again, my age and the fact I look barely into puberty. I can’t make this up. People think I am 15-18 all the time.

“Id halt what you are doing get on a proper PCT and get yourself RIGHT. You realize your talking LIFE here life long replacement if you just keep going. Its a bitch. Gets old.”

You have a good point, thanks bro. I don’t want HRT for life. At the same time, I am guessing some hormone related deficiency would explain my current issues.

“Have to add what other test did this so called doc have done to find out the cause??”

Nothing beyond your typical BSA, SBGH, etc.

“are you Primary, secondary, or heck both??”

What? Could you elaborate?

“Was amn MRI done if it was primary??”

No MRI was done, but that is a good idea.

[quote]Nicholas F wrote:
Jackal1 wrote:
From the looks of a handful of posts, seems like most people on HRT are in or past their early thirties, and understandably like to reign in the testosterone levels of years back.

I would sure as hell like to even get there.

Heres some background for a fuller picture. I suspected low T levels because I am 23 with very little body hair, the inability to even cast a 5 oclock shadow, sound about 15, and look at best 2-3 years older than that. And in prime college years, I am very successful with women (sarcasm). Paradoxally, I`m decently muscular and have low body fat percentage. The latter is perhaps due to lifting and martial arts.

Test results: total; 480 ng/dL, free; 104 pg/mL, bioavailable; 240ng/dL.

After about 3 months of Androgel, I noticed slightly more body hair all around and sprouted facial spikes. The odd thing is that I apparently stand taller by half an inch and, no joke, went from 170 to 190 pounds. Seems like I got fatter and buffer–both sides effect I sure as hell didn`t mind. New total: 550 ng/dL. WTF?

The direct issue: I`m frustrated with my low numbers for my age. Maybe I should press my physician for Testim or a larger concentration of Androgel.

But then what? Should I try Alpha Male and such? Is it likely I am going to stay on gels and creams for life?

How the heck did you get your doc to write a script for you with those numbers? Yea, there not good, but hell, there not really that bad either. Lots of guys in their 20’s have around 500’s total test.

Better yet, pass that info on your doc along Im sure plenty are interested. [/quote]

This is starting to piss me off. It’s not that hard to understand…and i made a point of it earlier. Yes…MOST men on HRT actually need it. But if you dont need it…its not hard to get it. HRT doctors make their money putting guys on this stuff. Do a little experiment…if you are of the age of 18-25 with normal testosterone levels…goto the HRT doctor, shell out the 175 for blood work…and viola…wait for a call from the doctor telling you to set up a follow up appointment and get your prescription written up. This is true…if you dont believe me, try it. They will prescribe it to anyone over the age of 18…their justification is that noone reaches their FULL potential.

[quote]Jackal1 wrote:

Haha. 400 is in the “normal” range for someone between the age of voting and dentures, but not for 23. There’s an article I’ll pull on this… The script–again, my age and the fact I look barely into puberty. I can’t make this up. People think I am 15-18 all the time. [/quote]

yes its low but not horrid. it could be a # of things stress, diet (low BF%) training, lack of rest, a combo of things. I dont think this warrants HRT without at least figuring out what the possible problem is and fixing that. Trying to get the body to do what it is supposed to You are creating test, not a Uber high amount but your body is working.

There are things to look into and try. Heck Alpha Male for one that and fixing any probs with the above listed.

[quote]
You have a good point, thanks bro. I don’t want HRT for life. At the same time, I am guessing some hormone related deficiency would explain my current issues. [/quote]

I would demand that the doc gives me test and find out What/where the problem is coming from.

[quote]
Nothing beyond your typical BSA, SBGH, etc.[/quote]

get a new doc.

Is it a pituitary problem not, creating LH to signal for test to be produced. Or is it at the testicular level. The body is kicking out LH the ole boys down stairs arent up to snuff in there production for the demand??

If at the pituitary then an MRI with and without contrast should be done. It is very common to have cancerous growth that is effecting the gland hence the low LH production.

Just think you could be Harboring a cancerous tumor and instead of a few simple test you were just slapped with a script sent on your way to accept it.

best of luck
Hope this helps,
Phill

Testosterone numbers are kind of a funny thing. The numbers you get from blood work can be a bit deceptive if not done under proper conditions.

I had my test checked one day after going to the doctor complaining of hair loss. My results came back as 395!! I was like WTF???

The thing to realize is that these numbers are very dependant on outside factors.

I got my test levels checked at 4pm (levels should be tested in the early morning). I had gotten little sleep the night before after having done a heavy ass leg workout. After I was done at the doctors, I went home and took a four hour nap.
I later spoke with another doctor (sports medicine M.D.) about my test numbers and he made it clear that those numbers can really be deceptive and that it really depends on your bodies sensitivity to testosterone. The large “normal range” that doctors use really is necessary because that’s how great test levels can vary amongst people with them being asymptomatic.

I would suggest you get an appointment with a good endocrinologist if you really want answers.

[quote]facko wrote:
Nicholas F wrote:
Jackal1 wrote:
From the looks of a handful of posts, seems like most people on HRT are in or past their early thirties, and understandably like to reign in the testosterone levels of years back.

I would sure as hell like to even get there.

Heres some background for a fuller picture. I suspected low T levels because I am 23 with very little body hair, the inability to even cast a 5 oclock shadow, sound about 15, and look at best 2-3 years older than that. And in prime college years, I am very successful with women (sarcasm). Paradoxally, I`m decently muscular and have low body fat percentage. The latter is perhaps due to lifting and martial arts.

Test results: total; 480 ng/dL, free; 104 pg/mL, bioavailable; 240ng/dL.

After about 3 months of Androgel, I noticed slightly more body hair all around and sprouted facial spikes. The odd thing is that I apparently stand taller by half an inch and, no joke, went from 170 to 190 pounds. Seems like I got fatter and buffer–both sides effect I sure as hell didn`t mind. New total: 550 ng/dL. WTF?

The direct issue: I`m frustrated with my low numbers for my age. Maybe I should press my physician for Testim or a larger concentration of Androgel.

But then what? Should I try Alpha Male and such? Is it likely I am going to stay on gels and creams for life?

How the heck did you get your doc to write a script for you with those numbers? Yea, there not good, but hell, there not really that bad either. Lots of guys in their 20’s have around 500’s total test.

Better yet, pass that info on your doc along Im sure plenty are interested.

This is starting to piss me off. It’s not that hard to understand…and i made a point of it earlier. Yes…MOST men on HRT actually need it. But if you dont need it…its not hard to get it. HRT doctors make their money putting guys on this stuff. Do a little experiment…if you are of the age of 18-25 with normal testosterone levels…goto the HRT doctor, shell out the 175 for blood work…and viola…wait for a call from the doctor telling you to set up a follow up appointment and get your prescription written up. This is true…if you dont believe me, try it. They will prescribe it to anyone over the age of 18…their justification is that noone reaches their FULL potential.[/quote]

Where do you live and what doc to you go to?

Im pretty familiar with and gaining info on HRT and the whole scene, Ive spent the last few months really diving into it.

First off, your numbers aren’t bad. I wouldn’t have opened pandoras box just yet at your age and numbers. You should have went the herbal route(stuff sold here).

Second off, as most people here can attest to, docs are VERY wary about giving out HRT. Just because you had a lienent experience(and boderline malpractice IMO) doesn’t mean anyone else can. You act like its buying something from the store, but its not. Look at yourself, you don’t even know what to do now, asking wether you should go off, continue, use Alpha Male, etc.

People like you is what screws it up for the people who really need it.

WTF are you talking about…you are getting confused with me and the original poster who is actuall on HRT. IM NOT ON HRT OR STEROIDS…im explaining that around where i live…its relatively easy to get a prescription and i knew two kids off hand who have gotten scripts for test cyp who were both under 21…and both by DIFFERENT doctors. Its people like me that what? I’m not even taking it…stop getting confused over who is posting what…and if you arent confused…stop making other people confused by talking about two different things in the same sentence.

Phil & bulletproof

“get a new doc”

“I would suggest you get an appointment with a good endocrinologist if you really want answers.”

Good suggestions. From the gist of your whole posts, I understand a clearer picture of what’s going on developmentally is needed.

“Is it a pituitary problem not, creating LH to signal for test to be produced. Or is it at the testicular level. The body is kicking out LH the ole boys down stairs arent up to snuff in there production for the demand??”

This week I’m headed for testing. I will try to arrange for LH and ACTH measurements.

"If at the pituitary then an MRI with and without contrast should be done. It is very common to have cancerous growth that is effecting the gland hence the low LH production.

“Just think you could be Harboring a cancerous tumor and instead of a few simple test you were just slapped with a script sent on your way to accept it.”

Physical examinations haven?t indicated any abnormal growths, but obviously they?re not foolproof. I mentioned I had surgery in the groin area (hernia) but he didn?t think this could have any effect—and maybe it very well did not.


Nicholas F

“People like you is what screws it up for the people who really need it.”

Given what I’ve posted, you are so certain I “don’t need it?” ? I can respect that opinion if you hold it. But I disagree that the blame rests entirely on me, and if it did, automatically screws your own situation.