HRT - How's It Possible?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, how tall are you, how much do you weigh, and are you out of shape?

This could be a condition you have had most of your life meaning, to you, it would feel “normal” even though you weren’t. I personally don’t understand the ethical breakdown you seem to be having. I also think a description of what you actually look like would explain why your doctor did what he did.[/quote]

I’m 5’11, weigh 270, around 14% bodyfat and drug-free. I’m not out of shape. I eat extremely healthy and train hard for competing. The “ethical breakdown” I’m having is that I don’t want to introduce HRT into my system because that would take me out of competing from what I understand. That leaves with me out of the game for the rest of my life. If I have to I have to.

I don’t know what this doctor is up to. When I went in for him to check my upper back injury he told me to take off my shirt. He said, “You look like the incredible hulk” and then proceeded to start feeling my traps and shoulders. It gave me the creeps. Then he proceeded to tell me that I am almost 40 years and that I need to “quit lifting and take up sewing”.

This is the second doctor I’ve seen with the same mindset. I’m not up for a third opinion. I figure it’s not going to change.

[quote]happydog48 wrote:

Your doctor may or may not be right about your condition/treatment, but one thing is certain. He’s an asshole and you should dump him. He’s the doctor, but it’s YOUR LIFE. What, exactly, is more important than your life and well being? Is not upsetting some jerk of a physician more important to you than your health? If it is, you definitely need more testosterone and you also need to reexamine your priorities.

Any doctor that talked to me like yours seems to or acted like I had no choice in the matter of my treatments would soon learn the error of his ways. I’d tell him to go fuck himself. In those exact words. Why are you letting this jerk treat you like a child?
[/quote]

As I said in an earlier post, this was my second opinion. This doctor was referred to me by a friend. The doc told him that he understood me being an athlete and could help me out with whatever I needed without the BS.

His conclusion was the same as the one last year so I assumed it must be true. I don’t think my insurance is going to let me go somewhere else for a third opinion.

I’m just tired of arguing with these doctors. Their idea of fitness is somebody that’s a vegetarian, skinny, weak, does the stair-stepper maching 3 times a week and never touches a weight.

We don’t have any sports medicine doctors in our insurance network unfortunately. The only doctor that I know that is a lifter himself is up in Idaho. That doesn’t do me much good in Nevada.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
happydog48 wrote:

I understand where you are coming from, but having worked in the healthcare field, most patients seem to misunderstand or half hear things that are said in the clinic. This is actually taught to us…that most patients only understand about 20% of what is actually said to them requiring us to repeat things over and over. You can’t force a patient to take HRT. The picture being painted is that they basically just walked in with a needle, held him down while he screamed, and injected him.

I find that hard to believe and not just because of the profession. I’m military and I can’t just do shit to patients without CONSENT. Period.[/quote]

Of course I consented. It wasn’t against my will. You’re right…I had a choice. In the military when I was laid up and wounded at Walter Reed I didn’t have a choice on what was going to happen next. The only thing the civilian doctors and the military doctors have in common is that they don’t really tell you a whole lot and they can’t wait to get out of there and get to the next patient. The patient is then left wondering what’s going on, why do I have this and what caused this? Those questions weren’t answered.

That is why I submitted this post. I thought there would be some other lifters on this forum that may have had the same experience and were left with finding out on their own what’s going on.

[quote]Raw Power wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Raw Power wrote:
e-loo wrote:

You make this sound like a bad thing. Your doctor did HIS JOB, found a problem and actually tried to treat it. Why the living hell are you complaining like this is a bad thing?

It’s a bad thing if I don’t need it. When asked how I could have this problem when I don’t have the symptoms all of a sudden I could hear crickets churping in the background in the silence. If I have a problem…hey, I will accept it. You said you’re in the medical field. How much time do doctors really take to cover all the bases with a patient when they have a waiting room full of people.

I’m not complaining…just concerned and a little skeptical. If I could have been told some of the reasons and causes from the doc I could have left there with the answers I needed instead of having to search them out on my own.
[/quote]

I honestly try to cover all bases. I look at ALL x-rays and go back through their entire medical history. I ask what medications, what surgeries, how that medication is working for them and many other things. The only reason many docs don’t do this now is to cover insurance costs and to actually make a living, the office has to be run like a Mc Donald’s just to come out ahead.

I ahve the luxury of not being in that situation yet meaning my patient load is less than it would be outside. I can’t speak for how things WILL be in the future, but for right now, I go through as much info as possible and refer when needed…which is becoming more and more often.

As far as the question you asked, no one knows why you would be showing no symptoms. That is why he didn’t have an answer. Questions I would ask would be:
-What is your sex life like?
-do you have a morning erection?
-How many times a week do you have an orgasm?
-Have you noticed any unexplained weight gain?
-Do you feel lethargic?

If you truly feel like an 18 year old, then fine. You mentioned you signed the consent form which means no one MADE you do anything…which is quite a different picture than you painted above.

[quote]Raw Power wrote:
happydog48 wrote:

Your doctor may or may not be right about your condition/treatment, but one thing is certain. He’s an asshole and you should dump him. He’s the doctor, but it’s YOUR LIFE. What, exactly, is more important than your life and well being? Is not upsetting some jerk of a physician more important to you than your health? If it is, you definitely need more testosterone and you also need to reexamine your priorities.

Any doctor that talked to me like yours seems to or acted like I had no choice in the matter of my treatments would soon learn the error of his ways. I’d tell him to go fuck himself. In those exact words. Why are you letting this jerk treat you like a child?

As I said in an earlier post, this was my second opinion. This doctor was referred to me by a friend. The doc told him that he understood me being an athlete and could help me out with whatever I needed without the BS.

His conclusion was the same as the one last year so I assumed it must be true. I don’t think my insurance is going to let me go somewhere else for a third opinion.

I’m just tired of arguing with these doctors. Their idea of fitness is somebody that’s a vegetarian, skinny, weak, does the stair-stepper maching 3 times a week and never touches a weight.

We don’t have any sports medicine doctors in our insurance network unfortunately. The only doctor that I know that is a lifter himself is up in Idaho. That doesn’t do me much good in Nevada. [/quote]

I am sure MANY people deal with the same thing. My childhood pediatrician (and often current doctor) used to train at the same gym I trained in Texas. He was pretty big so I doubt this issue would ever come up if I ever find myself in your situation.

The average person is sedentary. that includes health professionals. There are those out there who are involved in bodybuilding and strength training. You just have to look hard for them.

[quote]Raw Power wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Also, how tall are you, how much do you weigh, and are you out of shape?

This could be a condition you have had most of your life meaning, to you, it would feel “normal” even though you weren’t. I personally don’t understand the ethical breakdown you seem to be having. I also think a description of what you actually look like would explain why your doctor did what he did.

I’m 5’11, weigh 270, around 14% bodyfat and drug-free. I’m not out of shape. I eat extremely healthy and train hard for competing. The “ethical breakdown” I’m having is that I don’t want to introduce HRT into my system because that would take me out of competing from what I understand. That leaves with me out of the game for the rest of my life. If I have to I have to.

I don’t know what this doctor is up to. When I went in for him to check my upper back injury he told me to take off my shirt. He said, “You look like the incredible hulk” and then proceeded to start feeling my traps and shoulders. It gave me the creeps. Then he proceeded to tell me that I am almost 40 years and that I need to “quit lifting and take up sewing”.

This is the second doctor I’ve seen with the same mindset. I’m not up for a third opinion. I figure it’s not going to change.

[/quote]

No offense, guy, but that sounded like a joke. I know many docs with DRY senses of humor. They would make the same statement with a straight face and still be joking, especially the older ones. From what you have written about your FORCED CONSENT, I am leaning towards him having fun at your expense and you completely misunderstanding him.

Next time, ASK QUESTIONS BEFORE YOU LEAVE. I will never understand patients who sit there at a doctor’s office and then wait until they get home to complain about what they “think” the doc was referring to.

The human body is extremely complex and all in all, its functioning is not well understood. Plus, everyone is different. Aspirin is a wonder drug for some people, barely works for others and kills a small percentage of people who take it, so there are very few one size fits all things in medicine.

Ok, so you’re in a situation where your blood numbers don’t match your symptoms. For the doctor, this is an easy choice to make; he’s going to trust the numbers. Symptoms, in general, are just too sketchy and the symptoms for low test are pretty subjective.

One possible explanation is that your testosterone has always been relatively low. Some guys have blue eyes, some guys have brown eyes, some have low test and some have high test, that’s just the way things work. All biological populations exhibit variation and it may very well be that low testosterone is actually “normal” for you. It is possible that you don’t have the classic symptoms because your body has adapted and is able to function normally with low levels.

You should also consider how wide the range is that is considered “normal.” When the average turns out to have that kind of a range, you can bet that there were a lot of “normal” people well below those levels and a lot well above those levels. This is an easy thing to forget; even for professionals.

You’re left with a situation that doesn’t fit the standard scenario, so conventional wisdom isn’t much of a guide. You’re going to have to do what you do in any situation where you have to move through unknown territory without a map. You go slow and keep your eyes and ears open. It sounds to me like you are doing that so I think you’re on the right track. You’re educating yourself and taking a close interest in your treatment and there really isn’t much more that you can do. I wish you all the best!

Everyone,

Thank you very much for your thoughts, insights and suggestions. I really appreciate it! I’ll do more reading on my own about it and hopefully be better prepared for my next appointment in two months. I assume I’ll be retested at that time. Thanks again!

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Raw Power wrote:

I might have missed something (don’t have time to reread the whole thread), but you got an injection of test, and your next appointment is TWO MONTHS away? Damn.[/quote]

The doc gave me a two month supply of Testim 5g and then stated, “That stuff is going to take a few weeks to kick in. I’m going to give you a shot to give you a jump start.”

I don’t know how much he gave to me. I sure felt it. I didn’t realize until I started reading the threads on here that most guys are getting shots weekly or bi-weekly it appears and that 5g of Testim cream isn’t a whole lot. As of now I don’t feel any change or notice anything. Maybe I won’t for a few months. Then again, I feel great just like I always have. I’m training hard, getting a little stronger here and there and having great sex with my wife whenever I want so I’m still trying to make sense of this problem that I am told that I have.

Again, I appreciate the feedback from everyone!

What type of doctor was it that you saw? Any doctors diagnosis deserves a weighty consideration, (The numbers don’t lie) but if this guy wasn’t an endocrinologist maybe you could go see one to get to the bottom of this.

[quote]Sliver wrote:
What type of doctor was it that you saw? Any doctors diagnosis deserves a weighty consideration, (The numbers don’t lie) but if this guy wasn’t an endocrinologist maybe you could go see one to get to the bottom of this.[/quote]

He’s a regular M.D. as far as I understand it. On the door of his office it says, “Internal Medicine”.

You’re right…the numbers don’t lie. I thought he was goofin’ on me and he told me to get up and come look at the chart. He said, “Is that your name on top of the lab slip? You see that your T-level is 137?”

It was hard to argue with the guy. I had been told this a year ago by a P.A. but didn’t believe him either so this time I figured it must be true. I wasn’t about to tell this doc his job. He has the education, he’s pretty well up into his years and has a boatload of patients so I figure he must have something going on that’s right.

Thanks to all the great feedback that I have gotten from here my education in this area has grown a lot. I plan to bring up the subject of getting a referral to an endo doctor. After reading all the other posts on this forum I know that is where I probably need to go. This doctor will probably hand it out to me without any issues. He’s known for being generous with the meds and the referrals so we’ll see. Heck, each time I’ve gone in there he wants to give me shots and I leave with a bag full of whatever he prescribed so that helps me out with pharmacy costs.