so the plan is to pull the tren E out 2 weeks earlier than the Test E. but the test has only been 210mg/week for what will be 14 weeks. how soon after my last Test shot should i start my PCT? in a week the levels should drop below what my natural levels keep me at… just curious what you guys thought.
also i have clomid on hand as well as nolva. normally the 40/40/20/20 is fine. is there any reason/benifit i should throw clomid in with my pct?
Ty
10 days or so sounds about right.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
10 days or so sounds about right.[/quote]
That’s what I would do
Nolva does nothing to stimulate LH, whereas clomid does. SERMS are not created equal. I would use both. With slight overlap, and with Clomid used first. Start low dose clomid as the ester clears than introduce a few weeks of nolva overlapping with 1 week of clomid (mabye 2-4 weeks total clomid therapy). Can also decrease nolva dose to 20 maximum imo.
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
Nolva does nothing to stimulate LH, whereas clomid does. [/quote]
I am about 100% sure this is incorrect. What is your source for this?
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
Nolva does nothing to stimulate LH, whereas clomid does. SERMS are not created equal. I would use both. With slight overlap, and with Clomid used first. Start low dose clomid as the ester clears than introduce a few weeks of nolva overlapping with 1 week of clomid (mabye 2-4 weeks total clomid therapy). Can also decrease nolva dose to 20 maximum imo.[/quote]
what would your exact dosing of clomid and nolva be?
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
Nolva does nothing to stimulate LH, whereas clomid does. [/quote]
I am about 100% sure this is incorrect. What is your source for this?[/quote]
Disparate effect of clomiphene and tamoxifen on pituitary gonadotropin release in vitro, E. Y. Adashi, A. J. Hsueh, T. H. Bambino and S. S. Yen, AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism, Vol 240, Issue 2 125-E130
As well as anecdotal bloods which show the same pattern.
[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
Nolva does nothing to stimulate LH, whereas clomid does. SERMS are not created equal. I would use both. With slight overlap, and with Clomid used first. Start low dose clomid as the ester clears than introduce a few weeks of nolva overlapping with 1 week of clomid (mabye 2-4 weeks total clomid therapy). Can also decrease nolva dose to 20 maximum imo.[/quote]
what would your exact dosing of clomid and nolva be?[/quote]
I dose 25 EOD while esters are clearing, when exo test has cleared my system I keep running clomid but bump up to 50 EOD for first week, taper down to 25 during the second week and introduce nolva at this time at 20ED for 3 more weeks total. (ending the clomid use after nolva has been introduced for the full first week)
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
Nolva does nothing to stimulate LH, whereas clomid does. SERMS are not created equal. I would use both. With slight overlap, and with Clomid used first. Start low dose clomid as the ester clears than introduce a few weeks of nolva overlapping with 1 week of clomid (mabye 2-4 weeks total clomid therapy). Can also decrease nolva dose to 20 maximum imo.[/quote]
what would your exact dosing of clomid and nolva be?[/quote]
I dose 25 EOD while esters are clearing, when exo test has cleared my system I keep running clomid but bump up to 50 EOD for first week, taper down to 25 during the second week and introduce nolva at this time at 20ED for 3 more weeks total. (ending the clomid use after nolva has been introduced for the full first week)
[/quote]
let me see if i understand this. im now just running test for a few weeks and letting the
tren e Clear so.
(this starts 1 day after last shot)
week 1-2 clomid 25mg EOD
week 3 clomid 50mg EOD
week 4 clomid 25mg EOD, nolva 20mg ED
week 5-8 nolva 20mg ED
let me know if im wrong.
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
Nolva does nothing to stimulate LH, whereas clomid does. [/quote]
I am about 100% sure this is incorrect. What is your source for this?[/quote]
Disparate effect of clomiphene and tamoxifen on pituitary gonadotropin release in vitro, E. Y. Adashi, A. J. Hsueh, T. H. Bambino and S. S. Yen, AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism, Vol 240, Issue 2 125-E130
As well as anecdotal bloods which show the same pattern.[/quote]
Bam haha… well I belive ya
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
Nolva does nothing to stimulate LH, whereas clomid does. [/quote]
I am about 100% sure this is incorrect. What is your source for this?[/quote]
Disparate effect of clomiphene and tamoxifen on pituitary gonadotropin release in vitro, E. Y. Adashi, A. J. Hsueh, T. H. Bambino and S. S. Yen, AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism, Vol 240, Issue 2 125-E130
As well as anecdotal bloods which show the same pattern.[/quote]
Thakns for posting. The abstract is pretty interseting.
Although I’ve seen enough guys doing a SERM restart with nolva (even those on this site) to put more stock in that than in vitro studies done on rats…especially one that shows that estrogen increases testosterone (which we all konw is not true in humans in practice)
[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
[quote]BigJJ88 wrote:
Nolva does nothing to stimulate LH, whereas clomid does. SERMS are not created equal. I would use both. With slight overlap, and with Clomid used first. Start low dose clomid as the ester clears than introduce a few weeks of nolva overlapping with 1 week of clomid (mabye 2-4 weeks total clomid therapy). Can also decrease nolva dose to 20 maximum imo.[/quote]
what would your exact dosing of clomid and nolva be?[/quote]
I dose 25 EOD while esters are clearing, when exo test has cleared my system I keep running clomid but bump up to 50 EOD for first week, taper down to 25 during the second week and introduce nolva at this time at 20ED for 3 more weeks total. (ending the clomid use after nolva has been introduced for the full first week)
[/quote]
let me see if i understand this. im now just running test for a few weeks and letting the
tren e Clear so.
(this starts 1 day after last shot)
week 1-2 clomid 25mg EOD
week 3 clomid 50mg EOD
week 4 clomid 25mg EOD, nolva 20mg ED
week 5-8 nolva 20mg ED
let me know if im wrong.[/quote]
looks good
I usually run about 3-5 weeks of tamox,(clomid no longer than 4) total including the overlapped week, so tamox use would finish end of week 6-8, i drop nolva dosing an additional 10mg for the last couple weeks, even at lower dosages tamoxifen works pretty well over extended periods of time.
a note**
I assume you are, but make sure you’re running an AI up until esters are clearing. It is important to have estrogen low while testosterone is also falling.
During PCT is a good time to include extra healthy fat, beef liver, eggs, fish oils, all of it.
Slin is extra beneficial during PCT if its something you incorporate already.
this is very similar to dosages/plan ive used before… not exact but similar… came back like a champ.
so im now done with PCT and feel pretty damn good… there was about 10 days where i felt tired and unmotivated but i got through it.
here’s what i ended up doing.
W1-2 12.5mg clomid ED
W3 25mg clomid ED
W4 12.5mg clomid ed, 20mg nolva ED
W5-7 20mg nolva ED
W8 10mg nolva ED
granted my strength is down quite a bit but kept most of my size… lost about 3-4 lbs.
I agree, as much as we make this an exact science, their isn’t MUCH human based science to back it up. If you have enough clomid on hand, use from day one. I overlap much longer for three weeks and stop Nolva when I feel “good”. Any specific reason not to overlap the Clo/nolva longer, say 3 weeks?
Any specific reason why you don’t overlap longer and start the Nolva sooner? Also why Clomid no longer than 4 weeks?
Thanks
this was similar to the first PCT i did so im just making minor changes based on feeling and recovery from each time i try… next time i’m pretty sure i’ll also add in .25mg letro EOD or ED… my skin goes to shit when im on or when im in PCT without an AI.
[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
this was similar to the first PCT i did so im just making minor changes based on feeling and recovery from each time i try… next time i’m pretty sure i’ll also add in .25mg letro EOD or ED… my skin goes to shit when im on or when im in PCT without an AI.[/quote]
My back tends to break out during pct, I found running a low dose of aromasin will help a lot
[quote]BUDs wrote:
[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
this was similar to the first PCT i did so im just making minor changes based on feeling and recovery from each time i try… next time i’m pretty sure i’ll also add in .25mg letro EOD or ED… my skin goes to shit when im on or when im in PCT without an AI.[/quote]
My back tends to break out during pct, I found running a low dose of aromasin will help a lot[/quote]
Instead of using typical acid body washes, try the blue “oxy” palmolive dish soap. Its amazing for getting rid of the acne you have.
isnt it better to treat the root of the problem than the side effects?