T Nation

HRT-Baseline, Treatment, Now

HRT Guys,
I hope all is well with you. Thanks to all of you, especially you KSMan, for helping me. I’m going to the doc next Tuesday to begin HRT. I would like to have everyone currently using HRT to jot down their beginning numbers, their treatments and changes along the way, and their current numbers.

It would be nice to compare our numbers to each other and see where everyone winds up. Maybe then, we could help all others in the future bypass unnecessary treatment. The more info you’ve got, the better off you are. Thanks everyone for your input.

Mike

BTW, mine are as follows:
Free = 8.6 ng/dl
Total = 277 ng/dl
TSH = 1.47 mU/L

Looking forward to feeling better soon.

Mike

Hey there,

     I'm from Canada and the lab work they do here is in different measurements(it's done in picomoles I believe).

     I'm a 32 year old male suffering from really bad fatigue/exhaustion, depression and panic/anxiety disorder. They tested my T levels FINALLY(after close to 18 years on and off antidepressants, tranquilizers and various meds).

The lab sheet my doctor showed me had a range for FREE testosterone of 25-98.
Mine was 10.2! So yeah, it is low.
I’m 6 weeks in to testosterone enanthate injections of 200mg. every 2 weeks. Just had my 3rd injection today and I haven’t had any significant relief at all from any of my symptoms.

I will keep posting as I attempt to make progress and hopefully improve my quality of life.

Cheers,
Kaleb.

What were the units that your results are in? In Aus, it goes by nmol/L. I am not sure about Canada.

[quote]mikandrea wrote:
Maybe then, we could help all others in the future bypass unnecessary treatment.
[/quote]

Mike – I like the idea of collecting this info.

But just a thought about “bypassing unnecessary treatment.”

It makes sense that a doc would start with the least invasive treatment to see if that works.

Transdermals like androgel etc work for a lot of people.

They have an advantage over a treatment like injections in that they deliver a more or less steady level of test versus the spike of test you get w injections.

A patient is not going to know whether or not a treatment is effective unless he tries it out. Just because androgel did not work for me doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work for you.

PS when my numbers get stabilized I’ll post 'em up.
GOOD LUCK W YOUR TREATMENT!

Beginning 77 ng/dl

Current 600-800 ng/dl

Dosage = 7.5 grams Andogel daily.

Baseline and after 2 months
100mg/wk test cyp, no HCG, no anti-E, injecting once per week, 2nd blood work at 3.5 days.

age 57
height 5’ 9.5"
BF 20%,17%
weight 150,155
pant size 33,32 and loose

T 335,889
FT 0.92,3.43
E 0.24,0.24
FT:E .92,3.43
DHT 27,87
DHEA 275,169
Pregnenolone 103,57
Tot chol 243,206
HDL 48,48
LDL 173,148
Triglycerides 109,47
PSA .60,.47
free T4 .94
TSH 1.64

After 2 months I did not feel the lift from the weekly injection anymore, it was more like the slump at the end of the week lasted 7 days. High T levels were not a good result in terms of libido, mood, energy at that point in time. At 1 month it seemed quite the opposite, but that does not last.

Later added HCG 2x250iu/week improved things a lot, then HCG 250iu EOD even better. T levels are up from the 886 with the testes turned back on. Was over normal range on (3rd) saliva test, can’t compare directly.

Tried T ED for a while to feel what steady state levels were, then changed to EOD to sync with HCG injections. T EOD felt better than T ED. Injecting 28mg/.14ml test cyp with #29 .5" .5ml insulin syringe IM in vastus lateralis.

Added 1mg Arimidex/anastrozole per week a few weeks ago which restored morning wood and more libido. Wondering how long it takes E occupied T receptors to clear.

The addition of HCG improved mood and the anabolic effects and the ability of the CNS to demand muscle strength improved, leading to good muscle gains. Can’t tell what was HCG vs the HCG induced increase in T.

At 6 weeks my once thin crinkly skin was thicker and elastic. Pinched skin on the back of the hand recovered instantly. Nails were splitting/brittle, after the nail bed grows out, 4-6 months, nails thicker and stronger.

Acne: If you had any acne when a young adult, I think that most will have some of that come back if T levels are high normal range.

Hair: Growing faster, perhaps thicker. More facial hair, upper chest and belly. No hair loss or thinning. Dandruff is back, using Nizoral shampoo and also using on face to reduce local T–>DHT conversion.

CNS: 10-15 years ago I started to have problems with typos where the two hands were getting off on timing and sh, th would be hs, ht etc. That has gone away and my number of spelling errors is -=vastly=- reduced now. It is hard to quantify things, but this is definately something that has a quantifiable/measureable result. I think that it is reasonabe to conclude that I was having T level issues starting 10-15 years ago.

A question on the gels/creams. It says that they MUST be applied at the same time every day and you must not touch anyone with the transdermal for fear of transferring the T to them. I have 3 young kids and that scares me. Also, doesn’t it lose the spontanaity (sp?) with the wife?

I would always have to shower before we mess around to get all of the T off. Thoughts please. Appointment is this Tuesday and I’m gathering as much as possible.

An e-loo, thanks for the help. What I meant by unnecessary treatment was like the guy who was on another thread saying that he was prescribed 2.5mg Androgel.

Thanks again for the help guys.

Mike

[quote]mikandrea wrote:
A question on the gels/creams. It says that they MUST be applied at the same time every day and you must not touch anyone with the transdermal for fear of transferring the T to them. I have 3 young kids and that scares me. Also, doesn’t it lose the spontanaity (sp?) with the wife? [/quote]

It is not really a big deal – Wash your hands, let the gel dry for about 5 minutes or so, put your shirt on. You will need to shower before sex – at least you have enough testosterone to have sex! And I doubt your wife is going to complain about you being clean! Relevant parts from the patient info:

"Wait 5 to 6 hours before showering or swimming. To ensure that the greatest amount of AndroGel is absorbed into your system, you should wait 5 to 6 hours after application before showering or swimming. Once in a while, you may shower or swim as soon as 1 hour after applying AndroGel. If done infrequently, this will have little effect on the amount of AndroGel that is absorbed by your body.

Maintain normal activities. Once your hands are washed and the application site is covered with clothing, there is little risk of transferring testosterone to someone else’s skin due to bodily contact. If, however, you expect direct skin contact with someone else, you should wash your application site(s) with soap and water before that encounter. This will reduce the chance that the medicine will transfer to the other person."

My Glucose 66.

DHEA 520.

Estradoil - 47. (10 -50)

Total Test - 490 (300 - 1200)

Free Test - 18.9

Growth Hormone - 176

More complete bloodwork soon.

Well, the MD put me on 5g of Androgel today. I pushed for an anti-estrogen, but he laughed and said that that wasn’t standard treatment. He stated that when we do the next series of bloodwork (in 2 weeks), we’ll also check E levels. I’ll let you all know how it goes.

Mike

Concerning androgel transfer…
I was concerned about touching the wife before sex as well when I first started. When I brought it up to my doctor he said it wasn’t a real big deal. The worst a little transfer will do is maybe make her more amorous. Yes, I wash my hands but after it’s dry on the application site I don’t worry about it. And she has had no apparent problems.

I do worry about it concerning small children and pets, simply because the weight to transfer ratio may be higher. I do make sure there isn’t any chance my children and pets can get to an opened/used packet.

In_Kansas,
Thanks for the reply. I’d still be nervous (and am). Although your MD told you that, a study demonstrated that after 15 minutes of touching, the woman’s testosterone rate was 2x normal. Wasn’t sure if you knew that. How have your results been on the Androgel?

Mike

Thanks Mike I didn’t know it the T levels in a woman could double. Also I usually put the androgel on my upper arms/shoulders and a little on my chest, so maybe that is why she doesn’t seem get a lot? She doesn’t show any of the symptoms ie: acne, thinning hair or anything out of the ordinary.

My experience on androgel has been pretty good. I started out doing the shots every two weeks. I liked the shots pretty well except for the drop in levels at day nine. Anyway, a guy at work had a tumor removed and his endocrinologist Dr. put him on androgel, that’s how I learned of it. I started out below 200 and now run between 600-800 pretty steady on 5mg packets each day.

[quote]mikandrea wrote:
I’d still be nervous (and am). Although your MD told you that, a study demonstrated that after 15 minutes of touching, the woman’s testosterone rate was 2x normal.[/quote]

Maybe that explains why my wife is suddenly wanting a big screen flat panel television.

[quote]e-loo wrote:

Maybe that explains why my wife is suddenly wanting a big screen flat panel television.

[/quote]

Probably not, but it clearly explains my wife’s bedroom eyes while I was on Testim. I do miss that now that I’m on T-cyp instead.

[quote]In_Kansas wrote:
Concerning androgel transfer…
I was concerned about touching the wife before sex as well when I first started. [/quote]

I should think that one could incorporate a couple changes to minimize the potential problem:

1)Start off with a shower- together. Yeah! Nothing like foreplay in the shower.

2)Or leave your t-shirt on sometimes. Get one with the likeness of her fave; the Rock, Vin Diesel, you, whoever.

3)If you let her ride topside then there is not likely to be much contact with your shoulders, so unless you’re dosing the Headboard I think she’ll be safe. Needless to say this is even more true of doggy style.

4)For the more dramatic amongst us- gloves are sexy! Especially those long slender gloves that ladies used to wear when we were a far more civilized nation than we are today. Get your gloves on baby- daddy’s home!

Ultimately if you dose up in the morning it is hard to imagine that there would be significant transfer in the evening, which should be a help to nocturnal lovers. For morning trysts obviously make love before dosing.

Honestly I think it is just an excellent excuse to get a little more creative than many of us would otherwise be:)

[quote]mikandrea wrote:
BTW, mine are as follows:
Free = 8.6 ng/dl
Total = 277 ng/dl
TSH = 1.47 mU/L

Looking forward to feeling better soon.

Mike[/quote]

I have been on shots for 4 months now. I started out with 115ng/dl total. I tried creams without change. I asked my doctor to let me have shots, and she approved. I started on 100mg T-cyp/week, then 125mg/wk, got tested at 450 ng/dl and now I am on 100 X 2/wk (to help stop E production)and feel a lot better. I am getting blood work tomorrow to find out if I am over 700 ng/dl yet. I have teen age woodies like I forgot existed. The twice a wk shots don’t bother me, as I have put on ten pounds of muscle, lost 2-1/2 in my waist and am working on an “8 pack” ( 6pack w/obliques) Oh yeah, I had back surgery a year ago, and in spite of the pain meds killing my system, I have come back to want poke every pretty thing in a skirt. I’m 47…
5’9-1/2 weight-186#
KNB

[quote]mikandrea wrote:
BTW, mine are as follows:
Free = 8.6 ng/dl
Total = 277 ng/dl
TSH = 1.47 mU/L

Looking forward to feeling better soon.

Mike[/quote]

I have been on shots for 4 months now. I started out with 115ng/dl total. I tried creams without change. I asked my doctor to let me have shots, and she approved. I started on 100mg T-cyp/week, then 125mg/wk, got tested at 450 ng/dl and now I am on 100 X 2/wk (to help stop E production)and feel a lot better. I am getting blood work tomorrow to find out if I am over 700 ng/dl yet. I have teen age woodies like I forgot existed. The twice a wk shots don’t bother me, as I have put on ten pounds of muscle, lost 2-1/2 in my waist and am working on an “8 pack” ( 6pack w/obliques) Oh yeah, I had back surgery a year ago, and in spite of the pain meds killing my system, I have come back to want poke every pretty thing in a skirt. I’m 47…
5’9-1/2 weight-186#
KNB

[quote]KNB wrote:
mikandrea wrote:
BTW, mine are as follows:
Free = 8.6 ng/dl
Total = 277 ng/dl
TSH = 1.47 mU/L

Looking forward to feeling better soon.

Mike

I have been on shots for 4 months now. I started out with 115ng/dl total. I tried creams without change. I asked my doctor to let me have shots, and she approved. I started on 100mg T-cyp/week, then 125mg/wk, got tested at 450 ng/dl and now I am on 100 X 2/wk (to help stop E production)and feel a lot better. I am getting blood work tomorrow to find out if I am over 700 ng/dl yet. I have teen age woodies like I forgot existed. The twice a wk shots don’t bother me, as I have put on ten pounds of muscle, lost 2-1/2 in my waist and am working on an “8 pack” ( 6pack w/obliques) Oh yeah, I had back surgery a year ago, and in spite of the pain meds killing my system, I have come back to want poke every pretty thing in a skirt. I’m 47…
5’9-1/2 weight-186#
KNB[/quote]

What do you mean “stop E production”?