T Nation

HRT - Any Young Guys?

Due to testicular atrophy i slowly developed symptoms of low testosterone over a period of twelve weeks. I am positive this was brought on due to a varicocele that formed on my left testicle and i am looking into surgery for a hope of fixing this.

I got put on TestoGel 50mg a day. I done this for two week’s but didn’t notice much of an improvement, i was still as tired as always and still felt crappy. I did notice an improvement in mood and general alertness though. Mental function was a little better than normal.

My results before starting TRT (when i felt really bad):

Total T : 15.2 NMOL/L (14-40)
SHBG: 26.0 NMLOL/L (20 - 45)
Free Androgen Index (FAI) : 58 (70 - 100)
Calculated FreeTestosterone (CFT) 356.7 PMOL/L (300 - 600)
FSH : 2.7 IU/L (0.7 - 6)
LH: 3.9 IU/L (0.8 - 6)
Estradiol (E2) : 73.0 PMOL/L (55 - 184)
TSH: 1.9 IU/L (0.4 - 5.5)

I got some bad side effects from TestoGel:

  • Water Retention (feeling bloated)
  • Stomach cramps (related to the above?)
  • Body Itching (including “pins and needless” feelings in hands and feet)
  • Itchy scalp
  • Body Rash (general rash on shoulders/upper arms and broken blood vessels on upper body)
  • Rash at application site (broken dry skin)
  • Still no morning erections and problems “maintaing” normal erections
  • Red Spots/Acne on application site (after two weeks)
  • “Vasculitis” like symptoms on upper arms (application site).
  • Blood shot / itchy eyes (really bad in right eye)

At this point i didn’t get any more lab’s done so wasn’t sure of my levels (this was out with my control). Because of these side effects i decided to switch too Andromen cream (as advised by my TRT doctor).

I was told to apply this twice daily to the scrotum (10mg per unit).

Like TestoGel, i got some bad side effects (i must have the worst luck ever!):

  • Bad rash on scrotum (with signs of broken blood vessels and slight bleeding)
  • Rash on foreskin area and below penis (also some slight bleeding from penis glans area)
  • Feeling of lower than normal testosterone levels (fatigued / tired more than often).
  • Feeling of increased libido (higher DHT?)
  • Erections still poor!

After about a week i decided to stop Andromen and switch back to TestoGel. I contacted my TRT doctor and i am now getting “Testim” to try instead. I am really hoping testim work’s alot better than the other two and dosen’t give as many bad side effects.

What do other’s think about the above? Being only 23 i am keen to hear what other’s around my age have felt like using TRT?

Will Testim work better at two tubes a day than the above? What are the best application sites for Testim (to reduce E2/DHT)?

I’ve read that Testim is a good product. It’s said to be the best available for this sort of therapy. Do not put Testim on the scrotum. Apply it to the upper back, the outside of the upper arms, and maybe the upper chest area.

At 2 tubes a day (I think that’s 100mg) you should be up to normal testosterone levels, maybe the high end of “normal”. Only blood work will tell. Good luck. Let us know how it works for you.

Thanks for the reply buddy.

I am going to apply the gel to the upper arms and shoulder area at first, just to monitor how my skin reacts to this stuff. Fingers crossed it work’s without problems.

I would be keen to hear any other young guy’s on the HRT stuff and how they got on. Any other Testim user’s here?

It you search and read, you will find that are there quite a few posts from young men. Most HRT/TRT posts and info are probably on the “the over 35 lifter” forum where the older guys mostly post with such issues.

You estrogen seems high, free T ok, LH mid range. Your testes will get smaller on TRT unless you take HCG. 250IU EOD subq suggested. You might need an anti aromatase such as arimidex. (Are you overweight? That can increase conversion of T–>E)

There are problems with topical test as you are finding out. Suggest that you consider injection of test cyp or test eth. Typical starting dose would be 100mg/week. Not hardly known, but test cyp can be drawn up in a .5ml #29 .5" insulin syringe. That will work if you have thin skin on your upper leg. IU inject 28mg EOD along with the HCG.

Insurance coverage? Injected test is the least cost route, but some insurance plans will not work with injectables, even though these cost very little compared to transdermals. In your situation with adverse reactions, you should be able to win an appeal on such.

I pay for my injectables out of pocket and the prices are very low in some locations. IE $16.25 for 10,000 IU HCG and $42-43 for 10ml of 200mg/ml test cyp.

Thanks for the reply Ksman.

The strange thing is am not overweight in anyway, i am infact underweight (about 9 stone). I can’t figure out why the testosterone is getting converted to E2 in my body. Maybe it’s a skin issue. This androgel is bad for this i’ve heard.

Diet is pretty good. Lot’s of pasta, veggies and alot of fruit juices (vit c, vit a, etc). I eat alot of pork, beef and even had the odd steak. Being honest with myself my diet is average. I don’t eat alot of fattie food’s (chips, etc). I do enjoy the odd pizza now and again though. I don’t drink or smoke either.

I would love to go down the HGC route but my testicles don’t work properly due to vascular issues (varicoceles both sides) and testicular atrophy as a result (i am looking into surgery to resolve this issue). Before all of this TRT stuff i felt pretty good all the time and never had ED or libido issues. I was alot more tired than some people though which might have been an early warning sign that i would have encountered this at some stage.

When i was feeling the worst possible my blood was taken and the results were as follows:

Total T : 15.2 NMOL/L (14-40)
SHBG: 26.0 NMLOL/L (20 - 45)
Free Androgen Index (FAI) : 58 (70 - 100)
Calculated FreeTestosterone (CFT) 356.7 PMOL/L (300 - 600)
FSH : 2.7 IU/L (0.7 - 6)
LH: 3.9 IU/L (0.8 - 6)
Estradiol (E2) : 73.0 PMOL/L (55 - 184)
TSH: 1.9 IU/L (0.4 - 5.5)

I know that the total testosterone dropped ALOT from my original value (which i will never what it was) as my last remaining “good” testicle shrunk about 90% of it’s original size. During this period of shrinkage i was getting really bad hot flushes and felt terrible all round. Morning erection’s stopped and when i did get an erection it was difficult to maintain and not as hard as before.

I got my blood taken on monday after being on TestoGel for 4 weeks (roughly). As always i will report back to the forum the findings. I am guessing my testosterone level is still low though. I am keen to see what the E2 is shaping up like though because i have still been getting some night sweets.

I will try the testim protocal for the same period of time (2/4 weeks) and get another blood test to find out how i am shaping up. What should i be taking to reduce E2? I live in the UK so getting some of these drug’s is pretty difficult (GP’s are fussy over here).

How do the injections work? Do you get supplied with the TRT in a bottle and simply inject yourself each week? Sorry i know very little about the injections.

The testosterone is modified to be an ester. That makes it soluble in oil. That is injected into muscle (IM) and the body absorbs that over a week or so.

As the oil is absorbed and testosterone ethanate or cypionate is modified by the body to remove the added molecule and leave bioidentical testosterone. This acts as a time release system. Many inject once a week, but smaller more frequent works better. The injections are not a big deal and folks inject themselves. The advantage is 100% delivery where transdermal seems to be about 10% at best and variable. And transdermals seem to evoke more conversion to estrogen and DHT than injected.

So that is it in an nutshell. Search for HRT and read for a few days. You need to know this shit to deal with the doctors. You will find some guys with problems like this in the UK and you can PM them for info on the ins and outs of the system over there for things like this.

Dive into this, its the start of a better life…

I did notice an improvement in mood and general alertness though. Mental function was a little better than normal.

you mean mood elevation and mental spurt as might be expected with a couple of measly Andriol Testocaps or is it markedly better than that?

come to think of it what good does andriol do given that it sucks at anabolism.
first pass or second pass at the portal vein…i dont give a cunt hair.

I mean the kind of shit storm people unleash when someone mentions Andriol…you wud think the testocaps are produced to sell you the packaging they come in kinda like the huge impregnable blister card packages that small ass memory cards come in at Costco.

does it even sell well or is it a loss making drug?

I am positive this was brought on due to a varicocele that formed on my left testicle and i am looking into surgery for a hope of fixing this

isnt the doctor supposed to brief you in on the potential for decline in test before undertaking the surgery? or
have you anticipated it all along?

Can someone explain what a “varicocele” for me (and others) and what might cause such things?

-thanks

[quote]KSman wrote:
Can someone explain what a “varicocele” for me (and others) and what might cause such things?

-thanks[/quote]
Varicocele is an abnormal enlargment of the veins in the scrotum draining the testicles…
knock yourself out.