[quote]Headhunter wrote:
By conversion I mean that older guys like me start converting testosterone into estogen.[/quote]
True and it is the fat cells around your belly that do most of that converting so much so that in middle aged men testosterone levels is generally proportional to your amount of adominal fat. So one way to reduce the amount of conversion going on (be it your own natural test or HRT) is to simply lose weight.
At 266lb you may not be exactly at 5% BF and so may have plenty of potential for decreasing the amount of conversion going on in your body simply by losing weight (maybe even to the level were you don’t even need to take any HRT).
(I intetnionally bulked up to 265lb about three years ago myself thinking the extreme bulking would make my muscles bigger and let me set new personal best bench press records. I didn’t know about the relation between fat and test to estrogen conversion back then. In hind sight though my extreme bulking was probably counter productive due to the hormonal effects, judgin by the fact that in the long run my strength went down and so did my libido. Now I’m 230lb and somewhere round 15-19% BF my performance in the gym has improved but the biggest difference is that I got my sex drive back, and without taking any HRT).
Yeah I can relate… After a nasty case of epiditimius, I am 35 and coujd out that I gaines weight adn felt like crap cause my serum T levels were very low as result of infection. Doc first put me on the patches Androdern 5 mg a day. The ate up my skin and would fall off at the first sign of a sweat, and vere about 75$ a month after my coverage. He then said he could just do shots in office at 2 ml/ 400 mg once a month {actually should be 1 ml every 2 weeks cause it will not last that long} But he is the doc. I feel allot better, need less sleep, and as you siad feel like I think I should have all this time. I have been on the patch and opr test cyp for about 2 weeks now, but can not work out for about 4 more days, I jsut had a kidney stone taken out yesterday and am so sore I can barley move. Good luck on your treatment, doc tells me that I may only need this for about 6 months but a strong possibility that I will be on for life, and the down side is? lol
head hunter, I am not sure about your doc but I take my test home with me and bring it in. MAKE DAMN SURE you take it out of the fridge the night before and not that morning lol, shot did nto hurt the cold ass test DID!!! lol, my wife broght it to me right out of the cooler lol. OWWWWWWWW! and you get a little knot on our hind end.
I’m going to do the shots, as Androgel just isn’t doing it. I actually feel WORSE on this crap than before! I had a complete hormonal profile and will get the results whenever–maybe estrogen blockers and the shots. I’m sad about the Androgel because of the inconvenience of shots and of course that big ass needle. My ass is wincing thinking of that!!
I’d probably still try the gel first and use the shots as a last resort, if anyone is thinking of doing HRT. And yeah, I could stand to lose some poundage–which comes first, the low test or the fat?
Well, I’m going to start the shots this week. I will get ‘skewered’ once every two weeks, probably for the next 40 years. Going to ask about Nebido, a time-released injection.
Anyone: what’s your experience been with the twice/month shots?
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Well, I’m going to start the shots this week. I will get ‘skewered’ once every two weeks, probably for the next 40 years. Going to ask about Nebido, a time-released injection.
Anyone: what’s your experience been with the twice/month shots?[/quote]
I just finished a 12 week cycle of ed injections. That’s one shot everyday for 84 days.
I had no bad experiences, and I’m counting the days until I can have another go at it.
No HRT for me. In a way, I’m kind of disappointed. But - now I don’t have to worry about side effects, etc. Back to the MAG-10 and Alpha Male.
T=338, low, but not low enough.
Well maybe it is for the best though. some of us could be possibly be on it for life, so I guess the silver lining is be thanfull that you still produce enough to stay off it.
take care
I went up to 10 grams/day of the gel. I am feeling better, after 3 weeks of therapy.
I really urge any of you guys who don’t feel like ‘your old self’ to get tested. My jaw dropped when I got my test back: 146 first time (should be 240-950) and 244 the second time (after 3 weeks of 5 grams/day).
Last night, I dropped and did pushups with my football playing teenage son!
That was a great moment!
Really you have no idea what you are lacking until you get the therapy, BIG energy boost and I sleep alot less!!
Sucks to need it but if it make you feel better then it is worth it.
Yea Head hunter, I have been on androgel for several years. Now I seem to be having trouble. I am 52yrs, no prostrate trouble in my family history. All of a sudden, I hav to visit a urologist. I have a slight burn in my pecker,rather I urinate or not. I hope I dont have a swollen prostrate from this shit or worse yet kidney disease. Wont know anything until I see Doc. I would keep good medical supervision if you are on HRT.
Just got my first shot today! I have a choice of getting 200mg of test twice a month or 400mg once a month anyone know which will keep test levels higher?
Different kinds of Test have different half-lives. This means, for example, propionate may decrease its concentration in your blood by half every 4 days. You’d need an injection in 2 weeks. Do a search of the site where some very knowledgeable people can tell you more.
I went on 10 mg/day of the gel about 8 days ago. The doc says ‘we’re going to get your T up to at least 300 ng/dl’. Well, whoop-de-frickin’ do! My range is 240-950 ng/dl! If my next test comes in that low, I’ll either get the shots or start browsing the steroid boards…
I really urge any of you guys who don’t feel like ‘your old self’ to get tested. My jaw dropped when I got my test back: [/quote]
I just had it tested during a physical. I was shocked to find out I was at 250ng/dl., but I can tell a difference after just one day.
Do you notice a difference in gains and recovery time as well?
No, Androgel works slowly. You rub it on your skin and it’s absorbed slowly. Most guys notice nothing for several weeks (which the doc failed to tell me). You must have gotten a shot. From what the endo said, you feel great for a while but it slowly goes away. You eventually are craving the next shot.
What’d he inject you with? How long was the needle?
I am by no means an expert on HRT. However, I am a hypogonadal 26 year old male who acquired secondary hypogonadism at the age of 22. Now, I have stated over and over on this board, from my knowledge, injections are the worst form of HRT available. Actually, nearly ALL progressive andrologists will agree with this one. This is why they (such doctors mentioned) use Androgel, and only Androgel these days. As for the talk about Androgel not being effective as shots, I do not think this is a correct statement, considering that a small amount of Androgel can take one into the upper normal range. I myself tested below 300 ng/dL. With 10 g of Androgel my levels rose to 1,400 ng/dL. My doctor had to lower it to 7.5 g. At this amount of medicine being taken, I last tested a few weeks ago at 920 ng/dL. My sex drive is pretty darn high and I recover quite well from working out, just like the days before I had this problem. Introducing other drugs such as Teslac and Arimidex is clearly unessecary since normal testosterone leves would not cause an abnormal amount aromotization. Estrogen actually does have function in the male, although I am not sure exactly what they are. Refer to Cy Wilson’s writings for an explanation of this.
Brad,
That was an intelligient post! My perception was that the gel was created for those of us who hate that damn long needle! Anyway, does what you said apply to us older guys? I’m 50, soon to be 51. The endo said how the gel was going to get my T up to 300 ng/dl and implied that I should be happy.
Anyway, can you point me any specifics where you got your information?
Doc gave me free samples of 7 weeks worth of Testim 1% at 5mg/day.
Scheduled for a retest of t levels in 6 weeks.
She was also reluctant to prescribe shots and if I wanted shots, I would have to go to a Urologist. She is aiming for a 600-700 range for total and an improvement in the free test.
I did not do anything to make my t levels artificially low. I got plenty of sleep, did not overtrain or drink alcohol for 3 weeks before the tests. I wanted a “true” reading.
