T Nation

HPTA Shutdown


I just finished a cycle and I feel like my testes are completely shut down - can't get erections or morning wood. Cialis dosent work. I've been really emotional for the last few weeks. I need some help getting things normalized.

My first cycle started February of last year. It was 10 weeks tren/test and nolva. No pct.

Sexual function was normal post-cycle.

The recent cycle was supposed to be 10 weeks but tweaked it halfway through and missed a week two separate times during the cycle while waiting for delivery.

I started with 5 weeks of testE s/w
and anastrazole ed. I then added trenE and ran tren/test and anastrazole for 10 weeks. I finished up with 4 weeks of test and clomid 25mg ed because I ran out of anastrazole.

Pct 2 weeks after: clomid 25mg ed for 2 or 3 weeks so far.

I didn't realize that clomid should not have been used during the cycle until after.

A friend suggest that I finish up with 4 weeks of test to retain sexual function.

Anyway. I think my hpta is shutdown and I would appreciate any advice to get things up and running. The sooner the better. Thanks


See this on HPTA restart from the TRT forum: https://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/hpta_restart_for_trt_guys_with_application_to_gear_and_pct

And this too: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/the_pct_serm_dosing_in_this_forum_is_wrong

I advocate hCG or SERM with AI during a cycle and SERM+AI for PCT. The testes are never shut down and PCT is not testicular recovery but T washout then SERM taper.

So you learned the hard way. We have a couple of current threads where guys are doing everything possible that is wrong and bragging about how thats all you need because they are not fucked up.

Think out and plan your PCT before your cycle and have PCT items in hand before you start. Its your parachute.


Thanks for the quick reply. For this particular situation would you recommend going the hcg/serm+ai route or just serm+ai?

I assume that I should stop taking clomid and get nolvadex.

My friend recommended that I take 3x the dose of tribulus every day for my mood and sexual function. I started today. Should I stop using this or can I continue?


Thanks for the quick response. Would you recommend the hcg/serm+aI or serm+ai only route for this particular situation?

I assume I should stop clomid immediately?

I started taking 3x the recommended dose of tribulus as suggest by a friend to improve my mood and libido hopefully. Thus started today. Should I continue with this or not?


tribulus ain’t gonna do a damn thing.

Not trying to be a dick or anything, but why didn’t you do a PCT?


I’m using clomid for pct as suggested by a friend. I’m 2 or 3 weeks in and feel horrible. I’m concerned because I also used clomid for the laSt 4 weeks of the cycle as an anti-estrogen, so I’m not sure if clomid that Im using for pct will be effective or is making things worse. It might be too much, I don’t know. I’m getting an AI today so maybe that will help. My mind is all over the place here trying to get things normalized.


How long of a break do I need from clomid before trying either of the methods listed above?


You and your friend… you’re both fucking idiots. I am awestruck by your stupidity.

With that in mind, I’ll bet I can’t expect you to get bloodwork cos you won’t right?

Do this:

Get a dopamine agonist like Cabergolin.

Swap clomid for nolva and read the links posted above for how to use it.

Do not start test again. Slap your friend for telling you that. No, just knock him out with a punch to the face. Then look in the mirror, smile, and do the same to yourself.


Thanks for the response. Going back on test was the end of the cycle. I’m not going back on.

I have read thoroughly how to use nolva+ai but don’t see any info on caber. I plan on speaking with an endocrinologist and getting blood work done. I realize that a lot of mistakes were made.


I forgot to mention that I have severe steroid induced hypogonadism, although that’s probably a given.


Sorry, I had just googled one the the names some kid mentioned in another thread just now and saw a fucking 15 year old happily proclaiming his own steroid use. Was fucking pissed off. My apologies.

Start nolva now. If you can get caber, do 0.25mg twice a week. You prolactin may be high from UGL tren.

Getting bloodwork would be best.


Ok thanks. I have nolva coming in a week and I just picked up some anastrazole. As far as caber goes… I can’t seem to find a site where it can be delivered within 1-2 weeks. Any suggestions?

I have 10x 25mg clomid tablets left. Should I taper off until the Nolva gets here, take it ED or EOD?

I called an endocrinologist and they won’t speak to me until Monday.


Also, I was going to order some Viagra until things get back to normal. Are there any implications when using Viagra with Caber and do you think Viagra will even work?


Clomid makes some guys feel really bad and depressed. That is why I suggest Nolvadex.

As I stated, you can do SERM+AI or hCG+AI–>SERM+AI

What is an anti-estrogen?

AI, aromatase inhibitor, reduces T–>E2 thus lowers E2
SERM tends to increase E2 while blinding the E receptors in “Selected” tissues, not all tissues/
You need both. Don’t use vague language.


Thanks KSman. Can I use Caber along with HCG/SERM/AI etc?


If my math is correct… a standard drop is 0.05 ML and my goal is 0.5 MG per week. So that would be 3 drops every other day?


yes on the drops

But the number of drops per ml depends on the surface tension of the liquid and the material and shape of the dropper. Counting the drops is needed, 20/ml is not always true. Have seen 28 drops/ml at times.

Shake product if it is a suspension.


Got it, thanks. I had my labs done today and will post the results when I get them.


Lab results are in:

Prolactin: 3.1 (4.0-15.2 ng/mL) L
Estradiol: 8.5 (7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
LH: 1.7 (1.7-8.6 mIU/mL)
FSH: 1.1 (1.5-12.4 mIU/mL) L
Testosterone, Serum: 167 (348-1197 ng/dL) L
Free testosterone (direct): 13.3 (9.3-26.5 pg/mL)

I don’t see any results for e2, t3, or t4.

Also I’ve been waking up in the middle of the night with slightly stronger erections every time, but still nothing during the day.

I finished the clomid on saturday but still taking anastrazole . Nolva and caber arrived today. Should I start them now?


Is your clomid from a UGL, i.e not pharma grade?