T Nation

HPTA Restart, What’s Next?

Hi All, hoping you can give me some good advice of where I am at… and what do do next.

So I am 25 and have done three cycles of test E and tren A in last 3 years. These were my first cycles I have done. Last year during the summer June while September I ran course of test e and Tren A at 0.5ml each every 3 days. However during this cycle I got a cyst under my right arm (likely roid related according to drs) and shortly after surgery got eczema which dr said likely stress of steroids and the surgery. So I came off all steroids. I started pct but mixed with the other drugs dr was giving me was making me sick. So I decided I’d start late pct and give myself time. 2 months after cycle ended I started tamoxifen 40mg tamoxifen and 100mg clomid a day before tapering down. Two days after my last tablets for pct I got bloods done… (Which I’ll post later as I’ve some how lost them but getting them again from drs today)…however my FSH was really high above normal and LH top of normal while my test was top of normal too. So I thought great stuff , things are working, don’t get me wrong expected it to drop in next couple of week but to normal levels. Anyway I asked for bloods again from drs for 4 weeks time which I went to do and found out it was just baseline test and wasn’t testing fsh and LH or test (no idea why). So I decided to go private (now 2 months from pct) and my free test was low 2.99nmol/l.

I don’t have my new fsh and lh I’ll be asking my dr today to do another test based on the results of private one.

So I’ve been told by the private test people that could mean TrT for life or try heavy pct with expert advice. Now ive say reading this site for hours and hours to try find out a solution and as you all know it’s hard.

With my first blood results after pct showing high fsh lh and test was this all simply just because of the pct ? Or does it prove my body was responding to pct but needs a stronger pct that includes HCG better SERM management.

Funny thing is I don’t even feel that tired fatigued, actually put size on at gym and strong, sex drive hasn’t been the best but not worst, little man still works. Testes don’t feel too small, left little smaller then I’d like but not raisins either.

Is TRT at 25 really my last option, or can I kick start test. Just a note my private blood test was done at half 7 at night which means could be little lower then morning but still very low.

Thank you for any help you can give! Hope you all have a good day :slight_smile:

Hard to say without your labs. Yes of course your FSH/LH are going to be high during PCT. Its important to see what they are doing after. Suggest reporting back with TT, FT, SHBG, FSH, LH, E2 results.

You recovered. PCT worked, you restarted. You messed with your hormones starting at age 22, there were bound to be some risks there.

You probably need more time off of everything to see what your new baseline is. If need be you can explore a monotherapy with Clomid, but you’re not there yet.

Thanks for the post, will be getting the labs today little later from that test so hopefully help with information.

Appreciate you taking your time to read through the message tho!

Thanks Iron, I have restested this morning so hopefully next two days have a better idea of where I am at. I’m hoping that my first blood test couple days after pct at least shows my body isn’t capable of kicking in.

And your right 22 way to young, followed the crowd some what in my area, Russian roulette for dis taster looking back because none of Han clued up enough to do it safely.

Thanks for taking time to post and hope to hear from you when I put up lab result too

Is capable * I meant to say

So dr is sending results to me so have to wait to get them but I do know from speaking to him is my test 2 days after pct was 34mmol/l. In the UK A fairly wide level of total testosterone in males is considered normal (9-32 mmol/l which is equivalent to about 270-1,000 ng/dl). So I’m above normal then.

I’ll provide FSH and LH as soon as I receive them

Maybe you had low to begin with. Do you have pre cycle levels?

Unfortunately not mate (very naive of me I know) I rushed into it being the last one in my group of friends to do it. Lesson learned.

I have done some research between primary and secondary and it sounds like if it’s secondary that there is more of a chance to fix.

I may be wrong but I suspect mine to be secondary (signal issue) as during my pct of just tamoxifen and clomid my Total test did go right up which I think my testes must still work to do that?? I imagine if it was primary my LH and FSH would of gone up but not my test. But what’s strange is they all went up.

So my most recent blood test which wasn’t private showed my free test down. Now unfortunately the dr didn’t test my free test the first time. So now I’m curious is my total test okay but my free test low? Again maybe signalling problem?

Just waiting on these bloods still to come through the post :man_facepalming:t3:

Cheers guys to

So finally my first bloods that I did on Feb20th (2 days after PCT has arrived and they are as follows:

Serum LH Level (XMOLv):
17.5iu/L [1.7 - 8.6]
Outside reference range

Serum follicle stimulating hormone level (XMOLv):
16.0 IU/L [1.5 - 12.4]
Outside reference range

Serum prolactin level (XaELX):
159miu/L [< 400.0]

Serum testosterone level (XE2dr):
33.3nmil/L [8.0 - 30.0] outside reference range

Serum SHBG level (44CD):
52nmol/L [18.0 - 54.0]

As you can see everything seemed okay, however the SHBG was very high , can I work out my free test from this?

Okay my more recent bloods from private only tested E2 and Testosterone and these were done last week 24th May taken at 7pm at night.

Free test (FT): 2.99nmol/L [8.4 - 28.7]

Oestrodal: 113.65 pmol/L [0 -146.1]

I am now waiting on most recent test which should be here Monday which is doing all of the above again.

My thoughts so far, and questions, my first blood test suggest to me that it’s not primary hypogonadism as I only used tamoxifen and clomid as my PCT at the time therefore estrogen blockers to encourage the production of lh and fsh which In turn encourages testes to make testosterone. I believe if I was primary my LH and FSH would of gone up but not testosterone (please correct me if I’m wrong)

Second thoughts is my SHBG is high on the test I got straight after PCT which makes me wonder if it’s still the he case now if it is this could also be something I need to address.

Thirdly my estrogen(e2) is fairly high on my recent blood test. Generally speaking estrogen goes up when testosterone goes up so suggest negative feed back loop and I’m wondering if I bring my estrogen down to more optimal levels would increase testosterone. I believe suggest on here optimal would be 22-23 pg/ml mine if I have converted it correct is currently at 30pg/ml which is pretty high considering not much test to be Aromatised.

Now it’s a case of waiting on these further bloods, but would love feedback if you can on what you’ve seen so far, thanks again all , it’s appreciated.

Whomever told you that 22-23 is optimal is someone you may feel free to ignore for the rest of your life. There is zero evidence that such a claim is valid. Additionally, 30 is not high by any means. If I was at 30 I’d feel lousy because for me “normal” is 40-45. Everyone is different but most of us fall within that range, hence the reason they have it. It’s wide for a reason.

Seen a post from that KSman guy who said it mate, could be wrong.

Good news from my new early morning test, just got an email back with my free test showing

16.39nmol/L [8.4 - 28.7]

Just waiting for the total test , FSH and LH results (dunno why he hasn’t just told me them)

Yeah, he’s 88% full of shit. If someone gives you a hard number like that then you can assume that it isn’t based on any reality but their own. If you feel good and are healthy at 22 then that’s great. Same goes for 32 or 44 or 19. The number means nothing absent the person’s physical and mental wellbeing.

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Ksman was a pseudo guru on this forum for years. He advised all sorts of AI use and E2 management which we’ve now learned is bunk. He’s no longer around.

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Thanks both! So seems my test is back in place , phew. Still no sex drive as such, can get erections but have to try pretty hard. Seen term tren dick and Deca dick haha! My prolactin was 310.87uIU/ml. Which is in range but have been told higher then ideal. Was wondering if this could be cause. Also read a bit around dopamine and receptors being affected and other things to try there but need sound advice from anyone in the know please

I have never did any type of cycle I just ended up with low T some how. Im 30 and I been on TRT for 2 years can someone help me with a detailed protocol that is known to work for a restart

It’s usually more complicated and drawn out for trt patients, but the basics are the same. The goal is to restart and then wait to see how it works. This means a SERM for probably six weeks, followed by a month off, followed by blood work to determine effectiveness.

If I had to cease trt and try a restart here is how I would do it:
-HCG for three weeks after my last test injection
-blood work
-Nolva for six weeks at 40/40/20/20/10/10
-blood work

From there you’ll know if it worked or not. Tough to say how well you’ll rebound, but at least this is the basis of what I’d be doing.

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What about DIM should I be using something for the E2 through out this process?

No. Clomid is going to stimulate E2 production in the testes, so an AI would not have an impact on that. You’ll probably bloat a little, but it’s temporary.

ok thank you all so much