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HPTA Restart. What Can I Do to Lessen Side Effects When Coming Off TRT?

Hi guys, I’ve been on trt unsupervised for just shy of 5yrs. Just test ethinate. Besides muscle gain I haven’t gotten enough benefits to keep jabbing. My libido hasn’t increased & my erections only improved greatly after getting my test levels in the 1400’s which is not healthy. In any case I’m researching HPTA restart programs. There’s so much info out there. In any case what can I do now to bring my balls back to life as much as possible while I’m on trt before I start my protocol? I’m considering going cold turkey if that’s an option, I’d like to avoid the mood swings though.

I’d add in hCG. Dose I don’t know. I think 250-1000 units 3 times per week would be good. You can start out with a higher dose and reduce, that’s what some restart protocols suggest. Then you should drop the test and continue hCG for a week. Then drop hCG and use tamoxifen or clomifen to restart the H and P. You could also use one of the two while using hCG. There is no feedback from LH itself in my opinion which means that if you got physiological or even lower T and E2 levels, SERMS will work. Since you are on TRT, T and E2 are already physiological. To minimize suffering I would continue TRT and add in hCG for a few weeks (4-6) before stopping TRT. Then continue HCG for a weeks and then start a SERM. Tamoxifen at 40 mg per day for 2-4 weeks and then at 20 mg for 4 weeks.

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Thank you, this is a good starting point

Is there anyone who can give me something solid to go with. Is @KSman still active now a days?

He gave you pretty solid advice.

KSman is gone and his advice was iffy.

Here is what I would do if I were giving it a go which pretty much mirrors what @lordgains said.

Stop Test.
Weeks 1-3: HCG 300iu EOD
Weeks 4-5: Tamoxifen 40mg ED
Weeks 6-7: Tamoxifen 20mg ED
Cease all wait 2-4 weeks and pull labs TT, FT, E2, FSH, LH minimum

Some will argue for more HCG but I don’t like much more than 1000iu per week.

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I would start the hCG a few weeks before stopping test, as OP asked for minimization of sides. Getting the balls back before stopping is probably a good idea.

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Thanks. I wasn’t undermining @lordgains advice, I used wrong choice of words.

Sounds like he suggests to
Add in high while on test(how long?). Then drop test, keep HCG only for a week.
Drop HCG and use tamoxifen or clomifen(how long?)

@lordgains @blshaw

I took your guy’s information and got this, how’s it look?
note: I did some research and found that Tamoxifen interferes with GH and IGF-1. Will this be bad for me if I want to continue working out and building muscle?

Weeks 1-2: HCG 300iu EOD
Stop Test.
Weeks 3-4: HCG 300ui EOD
Weeks 5-6: Tamoxifen 40mg ED
Weeks 7-8: Tamoxifen 20mg ED
Cease all wait 2-4 weeks and pull labs TT, FT, E2, FSH, LH minimum

Take tamoxifen 20 mg for 4 weeks, so 6 weeks of TAM total.

I’d wait at least 6 weeks before getting labs.

Also I would start HCG even earlier. I’ll lay it out, how I think it would be better:

Weeks 1-4 hCG EOD 300 IU

Stop Test after week 4.

Weeks 5-6 hCG EOD 300 IU

Weeks 7-8 Tamoxifen at 40 mg/day

Weeks 9-12 Tamoxifen at 20 mg/day

Pull labs in week 19. You’ll get a better picture then. On hCG and Tam your balls should get significantly bigger.

This is temporary and a necessary process in your case. No way around it. If TAM works, the 8 weeks it is in your blood won’t damage your muscle gains especially since I’m not expecting you to gain something in these weeks with low T levels. Eat enough during that time. IGF-1 will come back when TAM treatment is finished.

Thank you @lordgains, I really appreciate it.

As always: Be aware of the rare serious side effects these drugs can have so if one creeps up you can immediately stop.

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Definitely keeping that in mind. I’ll report back.

I decided to reach out to a clinic for an hpta restart. They requested some in depth labs. If I post them here would you guys mind telling me any flags you see?

We’ll try to help.

I think the advice received is solid. Looking at labs is standard (and often requested here).

Fwiw, I know a guy who recovered really well from 18 months on test, tren and mast (each at 600 mg/wk). He ran a serm low dose for a long period, then tapered it down.

If it was me I would do as suggested with the HCG, and do the serm as prescribed. Pull blood work after 4 weeks off the serm. If your results are good, stop. If not I would try a serm for a longer period in low dose. Something like 10mg nolva a day for 3 months. Then retest after 4 weeks. If that doesn’t work, trt is probably still in your future.

I would also post whatever protocol you get from the trt clinic. Some are very good, but some prescribe a protocol that defies logic. People here will be able to explain why it isn’t idea if so.

I have the consultation next week. I’ll post their recommendations and get your guys feedback. I’ve been between test ethenate and cypionate since 2016. Nothing hardcore or abusive, so hopefully this left me in the best case I can be for resart purposes.

Here’s what the clinic suggests:

Treatment Plan

  • Discontinue all testosterone for 2 weeks
  • After the 2 week period begin HCG monotherapy at 300 iu daily for 14 days only
  • On Day 15 start the Clomid/Enclomiphene 25 mg daily for 28 days
  • Begin IBUTAMOREN 5mg one by mouth every night - take at night before bed
  • Begin DHEA 40-50 mg daily
  • Begin Vitamin D3 5,000 iu daily

Thoughts? @lordgains @mnben87 @blshaw

You could try that. I wouldn’t call it a bad plan but we already laid out what we thought was best. If you’re more comfortable trying theirs then go for it. Everything less the peptide. Don’t take that.

I think this was good advice :slight_smile:

But you can also do their plan, it’s similar. Maybe a bit more sides.

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Sounds like they are trying to make a few extra bucks off you, especially if they are providing these. I wouldn’t take them, or at best I’d buy the DHEA and VitD on my own for probably WAY cheaper than what the clinic is charging. HCG and Clomid sounds pretty standard, @lordgains laid out a really good plan above too. I think his plan would lead to less side effects.

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Thanks for the feedback!

I would much rather go with the plan laid out by @lordgains but my issue is sourcing. The plan you guys laid out also seems like I’d keep my gains longer as well. The benefit of the clinic is they source everything so I have no choice there.
I opted out of the DHEA, MK-677, and vitamin D3 since it was ridiculously expensive. I’ll get those one my own. I’m planning on taking 100mg daily of DHEA instead of her suggested 50mg, what do you think about that?