When taking HCG at the beginning of the restart I felt amazing. Taking it these last couple weeks at 250 eod I haven’t had the same feeling of well being as I’ve been too anxious. I will probably try tamoxifen. The test shot I took it working its was out of my system and I can work on restoring my LH/FSH
OK – just reading back on your log – you had a sub 500 total testosterone reading as of 6/20 after pinning HCG. Then you added a bit more Testosterone and then took too much Aromasin.
A few thoughts: 1st–250 IU EOD is not enough to maintain natural Testosterone- 350 EOD is what would get you there and you need to go higher to bump it up. So, I’m wondering if you your T is crashing a bit Also, as we discussed – your low estrogen is likely contributing to your anxiety.
If I were in your shoes I would do the following:
Pin 500 IU HCG EOD. For 3 weeks. Start taking .5 MG Arimidex towards the end of the first week This will give your estrogen level time to increase after being crushed. Keep up the Arimidex .5 mg 2x week. After 3 weeks - the day after your last HCG shot try Nolvadex 10 mg/day for 3 weeks. Keep up the Arimidex throughout. See how you feel. Good luck bro and keep us posted.
Those were my levels prior to hcg. Last week labs showed TT 593 e2: 16. I will give 500 a try. Test labs on Thursday
How are you feeling? Any better?
Hey jim. I did get some anxiety medication from a primary care doctor which is now starting to work. My labs from 7/5 still show that E2 is low. TT and free t both within normal range. I’ve started nolvadex 10mg eod and aside from anxiety problems I feel pretty good. Erection quality is good, Sex drive is good (sex feels even better than when I was taking test). Energy is good. Sleep has still been an issue but got some medication from the doctor for that as well. Going to ride nolvadex out a little longer and taper off. Will Get labs again as soon as I can get a morning off.
Got labs this morning. Still a few weeks out from my hormone doc appt. Anxiety is severe still. And sleep is impossible without sleep aids
Are you taking the nolvadex at night or in the morning? Taking it at night made a huge difference (much less side effects). Also, based on your numbers and history, I don’t think you need a Serm right now. Other than E2 being low (which at 16 isn’t horrible) I don’t see the need and it only complicates things. What other sups are you taking? FYI- Many years ago (in the 80s) when I was in college, I had severe anxiety and depression brought about by a bad cycle. We didnt pct back then so it was largely low T and high E2 but it was also from having too many chemicals in my body. My body needed time to get back into homeostasis. It took the better part of a semester but I was good to go after that. So, I would stop the Nolvadex and determine the protocol based on your lab results. Please post those when you can.
Yes got labs back:
TT: 449
LH: 4.9
FSH: 3.0
E2: <6
I’ve tapered off the nolvadex from 10mg ed to eod to 5 eod. Taking nothing now. It’s been a few weeks since taking any aromasin and I’m still crashed on e2 side.
LookIng back at log. 6/19 was the the last time I took aromasin at 12.5mg. Since then e2 had come up to 16… then dropped to <6 last few lab draws
There is definitely a correlation between your T and E2. When your T drops from coming off the Serm it seems to crash your E2 - with the help of the Aromasin.
My guess is that your anxiety is from low E2. The solution would be to get your Testosterone levels up, which will increase your E2. HCG is great for this but at this point, I would tell you to see an Endo or Urologist. Try not to take anything until you see a doc. You have one in a few weeks I believe. I know it’s a long time to wait but stick with the sleep / anxiety meds and see what they tell you. I wish I could offer better and more definitive advice. Post back and let us know what the doc thinks or what your are doing.
Just going to wait until I see the doc. I’m sick of messing with things on my own. Every day is a struggle but I’m surviving. Another theory I have based on clinical research that I’ve read is that my serotonin levels are off. Testosterone acts as a serotonin transporter and helps Increaee its levels in the brain. Mine has dropped off causing anxiety/depression symptoms. Also… I did a 24hr urine cortisol test on 7/5. My cortisol was 4x above normal limit showing that I’m under severe stress. My am blood cortisol is within normal range but it stays elevated all day. This is likely the cause of my anxiety/ insomnia. Its unlikely that I have Cushing syndrome since this all happened once I stopped the t. However, there is something know as pseudo Cushing syndrome in which cortisol is elevated in people with depression. Once the depression is resolved the cortisol quickly returns to normal range. And what do we treat depression with? SSRI’s… which help increase serotonin in the brain. For me the solution could be to either resume testosterone treatment, or an SSRI. Just a theory
Interesting. You may be on to something with the serotonin and cortisol. I’ve been doing some reading and the biggest contributors to low serotonin are a lack of exercise, sleep and sunlight. We know your sleep is poor from the anxiety / serms but you said you are taking something for that. How are your workouts? Are you getting enough vitamin D3 / sunlight exposure?
Had my vitamin d tested. It’s 58. Thyroid hormones in normal range, as well as dhea/dhea-s. Everything is normal besides the very low E2 and very high cortisol. Workouts have been pretty much non existent though.
Try some moderately intensive physical activity while listening to your favorite tunes. Guaranteed to boost serotonin and dopamine.
Thanks for your support through this. Really been an exhausting couple months. I’ll keep pushing to figure it out
I gave in and gave myself a shot on Tuesday last week. Will continue weekly shots until I feel back to normal. I’m going to meet with my local trt doc as well as have a consultation with defy medical. I’m not sure the clomid was the he problem after all. This is purely neurotransmitter imbalance/full blown withdrawal. There is a lot of evidence supporting this with long term anabolic use. Although I was using testosterone in moderate doses. It had obviously affected my neurotransmitters/brain enough. I probably never needed t in the first place, but am probably reliant on it for life now. I hope others do not make the same mistake that I made. Hoping I will recover from withdrawal within another week or 2.
Interesting. This was my biggest mental hurdle in ever going on TRT because my natural levels were 438 or so - which isn’t horrible for a 50 y/o but half of what it was when I was younger. I gave in and feel better than ever, but again, I’m middle aged. Let me know what Defy says. Great outfit. Also, I found this post on anxiety and meds interesting: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/doctors-anyone-please-testosterone-and-neurotranmitters.134239779/
Yes I read that the other day. I believe my brain become dependent on the level or testosterone it was at. I’m trying to replenish depleted neurotransmitters right now. I’m guessing 2-6 weeks just like the time it takes an ssri to kick in. Being middle aged… your level decreased over time… possibly decades. Giving your body time to adjust .Where mine was instant. It’s a living hell
Just got recent blood back – and my testosterone has dropped significantly. It’s down to about 647 Ng/dl down from 1150 in March – Free Test is 96 down from 223.
My protocol has not changed – 81 g of AndroGel daily +300 IUs of hCG every other day.
Labs were taken about 24 hours after the last hCG and testosterone application.
I feel fine – and to be honest – can’t really tell the difference but I’m concerned that the gel maybe losing its effectiveness over time I am seeing a urologist who has appeared in other online TRT forums – and seems like he knows what he’s doing – next week – for a second opinion on the protocol. Will post back.
Went to a TRT Urologist and he wrote me a script for cypianate - stating that the gels were useless for me and my current levels were from the hcg.
His protocol mimicked an older Dr Chrysler treatment program as follows:
-100 mg Test Cyp 1xweek
-On both two days and 1 day prior to the injection day, use 350 IU HCG
- day after shot take .5 mg Arimidex.
He recommended IM but I’m going to try Subq in the thigh. I’ve seen mixed results on Subq on other forums but guys here seem to prefer it so I’ll give it a shot and post labs in 6 weeks or so.